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 Orks, orks and more orks

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Emilytheflayer
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huymix
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PostSubject: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 05 2013, 16:27

Hello all,

I've been batting around the idea of desperate allies and trying to experiment with combos to see how they perform. So far, I've seen some use out of both SW and Tau Desperate allies due to the idea they do some things very well/better then Dark Eldar.

In that spirit, I wanted to ask if anyone has tried Orks.

I bring them up because of the following units:

Big Mek - KFF is still a very useful piece of wargear and can buff the Ork contingent very well and Shokk Attack Gun, while unreliable in an Orky way, is also very reliable in a killing way. Pie plates at AP 2 is something DE lack.

Lootas - For Orks this unit is almost an automatic for me. For Dark Eldar it really depends on the composition of the army. I think it's hard to argue that this unit pours out a ton of Strength 7 (albeit at BS 2) but I can see where for this unit YMMV.

Shootas - While this unit could be considered a tax. It's a tax unit that at 6 points a guy is cost effective. If you have a blob with a Nob. Your opponent could want to ignore it due to being desperate. But I think in reality, 30 Orks is tough to really ignore.

Kannons - This is the real star for me. 1 unit of 3 Kannons with 6 extra crew, 3 ammo runts and a herder is a shade under 100 points. For that you get 3 Missles that have 3 rerolls at BS 3 and are very difficult to kill. The durability here is insane because we're talking about 12 grot wounds a herder wound and 6 artillery wounds for a total of 19 wounds for the whole unit at toughness 7. Throw them in cover and I don't really know who is going to bother this unit.

The reason I'm so high on Kannons is for one word: durability.

Lets face it, at the most durable, the Dark Eldar are nowhere near most other armies. This is an element of the army that at this point has become an essential army characteristic. However the lack of durability is a weakness that I believe can be mitigated. Kannons don't cost much, shoot ok but can take a heck of a lot of firepower and still keep going. Funny thing is, the only thing that really messes with Kannons is poison.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 05 2013, 16:37

For me, I'm not sure that Orks offer a huge amount to us as Desparate Allies. If they were scoring then a couple of big blobs of Boyz with a KFF would be a no brainer. As they are not though, the only thing I'd be tempted by would be a Warboss with a large unit of Nobz with Painboy, Cybork Bodies, 'Eavy Armour etc in a Battlewagon with Deff Rolla. Point that thing at the biggest concentration of enemy and have it roll forward at maximum speed. Your opponent has to deal with it and in the meantime the rest of your army is doing their thing without having too much attention paid to them.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 05 2013, 18:27

Ork warboss on a bike with a mob of nob bikers should do you well. Tough, fast and brutal. Guaranteed to draw fire away from the rest of your army. Very Happy

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 05 2013, 19:52

Warboss on bike + Nob Bikerz = a fast beatstick unit for relatively cheap. Other than that Lootas and maybe a dakkajet, but that is taking away from your dark eldar side at that point

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curebdc
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 06 2013, 05:36

I've used a nob biker/warboss to great effect! They keep up with your speed and are tough as nails and if they ignore them, they will be punished. Also yeah lootas are just fun. My problem was just that i fell in love with the psychic defense from eldar.

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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 07 2013, 15:08

Warboss and Nobz on bikes I didn't consider, but I will have to now. How many nobz do you run? I haven't run them before so I don't know what a points efficient number would be.
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curebdc
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 07 2013, 15:55

Well I ran 2 pk nobs, 1 regular, 1 big choppa with wagh banner, 1 painboy. All with cybork bodies. .. kinda expensive I know but worth it! What you get is 5++ from cybork, fnp from painboy, 2 wounds each and toughness 5 from being on the bikes themselves. The 5++ of course is just a preference since you can get cover from your bikes. I just usually want it for things that ignore cover.

The whole squad was 335pts. They count as troops because of warboss. you could cut out the wagh banner, a pk and a whole nob to make it more efficient. I like the fire magnet it draws tho! Well worth the points!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 07 2013, 16:15

I'd be tempted by that unit if it wasn't for the monetary cost. Nob warbikers are hideously expensive!

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curebdc
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 07 2013, 16:24

I just converted foot nobs from black reach onto regular bikers. Definitely cheaper... I should put pics up!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 07 2013, 16:39

@curebdc wrote:
I just converted foot nobs from black reach onto regular bikers. Definitely cheaper... I should put pics up!

Definitely!

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 07 2013, 18:03



Quote :
However the lack of durability is a weakness that I believe can be mitigated.

Here is the general idea how Dark Eldar mitigate any weakness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhYJgDdCu4

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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 07 2013, 18:13

@Azdrubael wrote:
Here is the general idea how Dark Eldar mitigate any weakness.

I thought this is how we mitigated any weaknesses. Wink

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Emilytheflayer
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 15 2015, 21:32

Personally I like to use lootas and burnas 10 of each the lootas will provide decant fire support and the burnas will provide the flamers that DE lacks kannonz r good too
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 15 2015, 22:45

I think the strength of orks, in particular their numbers, could potentially weaken the Dark Eldar contingent. Them being desperate allies and taking up a ton of space on the board means you'll find your movement very restricted if you want to keep them out of one eye open range. You'll have big blobs of boyz (and they do have to be big, because trukk boyz work even less now than they did before) that will have a really good chance of stopping one of your Dark Eldar units moving, simply because you've likely got a lot of them buzzing around in vehicles, and Dark Eldar need to be moving all the time! If you really want to make them work, a unit of ten or so Lootas is the obvious, must-have choice. A biker boss with either some warbikes or some nob bikers would be very hard hitting. But the troop tax unit needs to be a decent size for it to actually do anything other than get shot, beat itself up and run away, so you're talking at least twenty models, probably shootas if you're being competitive. You could just go with grots though, which would be my suggestion. Dirt cheap objective holders that you can just leave somewhere. You don't feel too bad if they all get wiped out because you've hardly lost anything, but every so often they'll win you the game. Quite often, in the case of my lucky grots Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 28 2015, 06:14

I was going to put a post up, but this is in the right vein to start with.
I struggle with Anti Air, I try bringing my own fliers, snapshot-ing Ravagers, blasters etc. But it rarely does anything(I either miss, or fail to pen)
I was looking at Ork Traktor Cannons. A unit of 3 Traktor Kannons, 3 ammo runts and 8 Gretchin is 105 points. This unit has awesome rules against fliers.
Add in a unit of gretchin for troops tax, a Painboy for HQ and you're looking at 190 points. The Painboy goes with the Kannon crew. I think that makes it a T7 unit with FNP to boot.
That to me seems like a worthwhile investment for some AA power.

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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 29 2015, 22:51



I think Orks could add plenty to a Dark Eldar list, but I wonder if perhaps Dark Eldar could add more to an Ork list. I think Orks do better than us generally; they're are tougher, and have better weapons for the most part.

But they could do well if they had access to a few specialised tools we can bring to the table. More and more I feel like Dark Eldar are best in small doses, as an allied detachment.

- A dakka ravager for clearing out TEQ that Orks might struggle with at long range.
- A venom could be perfect supplementary firepower in smaller games against daemons/nids.
- Scourges offer mobile and long ranged haywire, which Orks naturally lack. I could be wrong, but I think long range vehicle busting is something Orks almost always struggle with.

Most of our stuff can deep strike on a crucial turn, and with sufficient range, to help the green tide out. Keep our Dark Eldar units cheap, fast and you'll get the best bang for your buck.

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PostSubject: Re: Orks, orks and more orks   Orks, orks and more orks I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 02 2016, 17:43

I like the idea of a combined air force of dark eldar + orks, burnas in battlewagons or a static gunline with lootas taking out transports that dark eldar struggle with
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