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Gregantula
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Gregantula

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Join date : 2012-12-17
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PostSubject: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 08:23

If anyone could possibly help, I would greatly appreciate it.

At the beginning , I did amazingly against my friends Tau army. Since we are just starting our collections we are experimenting a lot with proxies, so we can vary our armies a lot. In that Tau lack a REEEEEAL codex (as DE did many year was ago) I thought it would only be fair to allow Forgeworld experimentation.

My issue is Tetras. Horrible horrible marker light spitting bastards. My friend has honed a raider killing strategy and now I am almost always left stranded in the middle of the field, units compromised by raider explosions. Disruption pods (and my horrible luck with Darklight weapons -- seriously) make all vehicles suuuuuuper hard to blow, and with improved BS and my cover saves eliminated, there are more wounds to take than there are are bodies to assign them to, no matter HOW fast I move.

These are my ideas:

Deep striking scourges with heat lances. Get within 12" to negate the disruption pods. Deep strike is risky, and a small squad like scourge squads aren't hard to shoot up.

Cronos and Talos to draw fire away from raiders (but they are so slow, they can be killed on turn two, while the raiders are shot up on turn 1)

Haywire Wyches have trouble getting that close with all that fire.

Webway portals are cool, but I think we all know how annoying the restrictions can be.

Night shields PLUS flicker fields *help* limit what can hit, and offer a weak save, but it's SOMETHING. Adds up though (still worth it in this instance, I think, though).

Beyond this, has anyone got some amaaaaaazing tips or secrets to share? Even deployment strategies... I usually get first turn as my friend likes to respond to my moves, so there's not much arguing there...

Please help. My poor guys are being abused by naive blue little animals with computers. Sad
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Hekatrix
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Posts : 1036
Join date : 2011-06-27
Location : Sydney

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 11:59

There have been a few recent Tau threads floating around.

One of the first probems starts with your list. I like that you are thinking about what each unit could bring (Scourge, Talos, etc) but some general tactical ideas include target saturation and threat analysis. I can tell you now that I more often try to shut down Markerlighters ASAP. The best tool; Reavers turbo boosting over the top of them. Strength 4 hits on their T3 is mint. 1 pass with 6 Reavers should kill 4-5 Markerlighters.

Target saturation or redundancy, is making many units available to do the same (or similar) job. 1 Ravager isn't going to kill all enemy tanks, you usually need 3, with units of Trueborn and perhaps some Haywire Grenades to help get the job done.

Tau call for a very daring tactic. It usually involves zooming everything straight towards them on T1, then make your kills T2 onwards. You want to close the gap with Tau, and fast. Wanna get inside that Disruption Pod range and wanna get into assault super quick. You just need to bring the right tools, and apply them correctly.

You don't bring a hammer to screw a screw

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 12:13

Tetras will always be a pain, they are fantastic for their cost and even if all they do is eat all your lances on your first turn then they have still done their job, by drawing fire away from more valuable targets. On the other hand you can't ignore them because a tau army supported with tetras will crush you.

@Gregantula wrote:
Beyond this, has anyone got some amaaaaaazing tips or secrets to share? Even deployment strategies... I usually get first turn as my friend likes to respond to my moves, so there's not much arguing there..

You are really lucky he going second, it would be a lot harder for you if he went first. Tau don't really have a denial element, they have lots of range, mobility, night vision and tertras have scout so I have no idea why he wants to go second, when he could alpha strike you into oblivion turn 1, regardless of where you deploy. I would just rush him.

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Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
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Gregantula
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Gregantula

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Join date : 2012-12-17
Location : Ontario

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 16:41

I like the idea of vaning the lights. Unfortunately, it's tetras, not pathfinders that provide them. I cannot target that stuff turn one because he just makes all of his saves and I've wasted my turn.

As for rushing, that worked beautifully for me at first, but he's a smart guy and has learned. My raiders go DOWN fast now, as he focuses fire, and once they are down... He obliterates the occupants too.

Though its not the wisest thing to do, I'm trying to more or less ignore the tetrAs and do my best to obliterate his infantry so that his marker lights are mostly useless. Lots of D cannons and splinter fire, but still in the form of a typical rush. As for destroying his vehicles, like I said, Darklight weapons NEVER (literally) hit for me. It's super sad.
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Mickylevi
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Join date : 2013-01-23
Location : Brisbane, QLD

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 02:05

My main army is actually Tau and the dark eldar guy at my local club is the only one I regularly beat.

And here I am starting to collect and play dark eldar myself - go figure.



The issues are pretty obvious - Tau are better at shooting than DEldar, and can generally take hits better as well.

I can possibly offer a few tips though...


1. Razorwing Jetfighters will actually be one of the best units you can take - fit them with Disintegrators and Splinter Cannons and send them on strafing runs against enemy infantry - including a single missile strike, this is a lot of very strong firepower to pump into a squad, and with the low leadership of Tau, has a great chance of breaking them.
Target priority should be Crisis Suits -> Stealth Suits / Hazard Suits -> Pathfinders -> Fire Warriors.
With the high AP of the Disintegrators and the quantity of easy wounds from the other weapons, you can wipe out squads of Suits pretty fast, and they are the Tau player's most dangerous squads (even if it doesn't seem that way). Just watch out for the Stealth Suits - if they're in terrain, their cover saves will be 2+, and you should ignore them in that case.
Pathfinders and Fire Warriors will fold very quickly as well under this sort of firepower, just try to angle your attack to prevent them getting cover saves from your attacks.

Tau are really lacking in AA ability, but you should take Flickerfields just in case of a lucky shot from a Broadside - you don't want to lose a round of shooting just for a 5+ jink save.
Your low armour does make you vulnerable to massed small arms fire from the FIre Warriors - but if your opponent is going to waste all his potent firepower trying to take down your flyers, then you've already won.


2. Raiders and Venoms are going to die in turn 1 or turn 2, unless you're really lucky. Unless you're making use of cover to do some long ranged heavy weapon sniping, there's no point hanging back - charge forwards in turn one and unload in turn two, and then if any vehicles survive, use them as screening and mobile cover for your infantry to advance behind and shoot through.


3. Tau tanks and vehicles excel at long range, but are much more vulnerable up close. They have no protection from melta and lance attacks, and their exceptional 3+ cover saves only from beyond 12" range. Using scourges, hellions or reavers to zoom up close and attack them inside this bubble will cut their cover save back to 5+, and they are very vulnerable to assault.


4. A large unit Reavers with caltrops and bladevanes turboboosting over the heads of some fire warriors should also be quite effective. Their toughness is low (3 - same as DE) giving you 3s and 2s to wound, and their armour save is decidedly average as well. Turbo-boosting across the board in turn one and mincing some fire warriors on the way should prove quite effective, and leave you in back field close to his tanks for follow-up heat lance attacks - and your 3+ cover save from turboboosting should help you survive the turn.

If i think of any more tips, I'll share them. Smile
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Lord Kesharq
Kabalite Warrior
Lord Kesharq

Posts : 111
Join date : 2012-08-13
Location : Spain

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 03:23

You think you have Tau problems.....THIS is a Tau problem lol:

Commander
-Cyclic Ion Blaster
-Fusion Blaster
-Positional Relay

Ethereal
-Honour Guard (12 fire warriors)
-Photon Grenades

------
5 Stealthsuits
-Fusion Blaster

8 Gun Drones

------
12 Fire Warriors
-Photon Grenades

12 Fire Warriors
-Photon Grenades

12 Fire Warriors
-Photon Grenades

12 Fire Warriors
-Photon Grenades

20 Kroot
-Shaper With Pulse Rifle
-x2 Krootox

20 Kroot
-Shaper
-x10 Kroot Hounds.

-------
7 Pathfinders
-3 Rail Rifles
Shas ui Bounding Knife

3 Broadsides
-Target Locks

Sniper Team

Sniper Team


The firepower from this list blows away nearly everyone who fighting its, and atm iv not beaten it with my dark eldar despite all the combos i can come up with.

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7th ed score:

Wins: 4 Cool 
Loses: 7 scratch 
Draws: 1 study
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Rauky
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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 03:31

@lord kesharq whats the points on that list?
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Mickylevi
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Join date : 2013-01-23
Location : Brisbane, QLD

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 04:26

Even conservatively, skipping some pretty crucial and obvious wargear choices, its still about 2150 points for the above.

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

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Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 07:36

This is tau problems! By far the hardest Tau list I have seen at 1500pts (probably because a DE player came up with it).

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Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
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Lord Kesharq
Kabalite Warrior
Lord Kesharq

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 11:16

@Rauky wrote:
@lord kesharq whats the points on that list?

The point for that tau list is 2075 pts affraid

Btw that Tau player is a very jammy french guy who luck is out of this world....he also owns 8600 pts of tau so is able to take anything he likes (he has most of stuff forge world have made for tau tho thankfully not a Manta yet).

The above list is just his standard list he plays atm.

Please use the Edit button in future. Thanks. Smile - Mush

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We have come to claim your souls in the name of our every lasting glory over mankind and all the races of the stars Twisted Evil


7th ed score:

Wins: 4 Cool 
Loses: 7 scratch 
Draws: 1 study
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Shadows Revenge
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Shadows Revenge

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 16:06

personally... I dont see that tau list being that hard.

Ok, first off, not much heavy AT, kill the broadsides and watch a landraider just run over those tau like nothing (oh god... a redeemer would have a field day)

Secondly it suffers from what I like to call 6th editionitis... I.E. all foot list. Why I think there is a place for lists for all foot lists, it is not the way to go, especially with all the boosts to tau vehicles. You destory key elements of the army, and watch them fail leadership tests and run right off the board. Also they arent mobile enough to take objectives, and you can just watch them as they move 6 and shoot 1 with their guns, and you mow anything that moves into midfield. Also blast templates would love this army (IG ftw...)

Im sorry... its just too tempting. I would love to see that army across from me at 2k. heck Ill even give him the extra points over

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Lord Kesharq
Kabalite Warrior
Lord Kesharq

Posts : 111
Join date : 2012-08-13
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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 24 2013, 22:26

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
personally... I dont see that tau list being that hard.

Ok, first off, not much heavy AT, kill the broadsides and watch a landraider just run over those tau like nothing (oh god... a redeemer would have a field day)

Secondly it suffers from what I like to call 6th editionitis... I.E. all foot list. Why I think there is a place for lists for all foot lists, it is not the way to go, especially with all the boosts to tau vehicles. You destory key elements of the army, and watch them fail leadership tests and run right off the board. Also they arent mobile enough to take objectives, and you can just watch them as they move 6 and shoot 1 with their guns, and you mow anything that moves into midfield. Also blast templates would love this army (IG ftw...)

Im sorry... its just too tempting. I would love to see that army across from me at 2k. heck Ill even give him the extra points over



Yeah it was made for 6th ed, also i agree this list is not that special (minus the fact there is nearly 100 infantry on the table..) the thing and the main reason why he has not lost in i believe 7 games is cos of his inhuman dice rolling skills. There insane, i mean in my last game against him i shot one of his fire warrior units and did like 9 hits with 8 wounds....he saved them all. That is the kinda luck this guy has, it like his Tau have been blessed by the gods. ( He is also a Tau vet..been playing since they were first brought out which is why he has such a large army).

xD if you ever come to spain and bring a army with you i will try and arrange a game should it?. (Btw his second army is Grey Knights..oh the cheese..)

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We have come to claim your souls in the name of our every lasting glory over mankind and all the races of the stars Twisted Evil


7th ed score:

Wins: 4 Cool 
Loses: 7 scratch 
Draws: 1 study
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Mushkilla
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Mushkilla

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 25 2013, 08:06

@Lord Kesharq wrote:
the thing and the main reason why he has not lost in i believe 7 games is cos of his inhuman dice rolling skills.

Ask to share his dice for the game, players are never rolling dice at the same time so 1 set of dice should do fine for two players. Then you will have insane luck too. Smile

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
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Lord Kesharq
Kabalite Warrior
Lord Kesharq

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 25 2013, 17:49

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Lord Kesharq wrote:
the thing and the main reason why he has not lost in i believe 7 games is cos of his inhuman dice rolling skills.

Ask to share his dice for the game, players are never rolling dice at the same time so 1 set of dice should do fine for two players. Then you will have insane luck too. Smile

xD iv tried that, didnt really improve my luck that much lol (first roll with them was 4 1s......) Cool

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We have come to claim your souls in the name of our every lasting glory over mankind and all the races of the stars Twisted Evil


7th ed score:

Wins: 4 Cool 
Loses: 7 scratch 
Draws: 1 study
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False Son
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2013, 04:28

This army begs to shredded by Necrotoxin Missiles. Tau without a dozen tanks to block, what a dream. BTW, he better have a Devilfish with those Pathfinders. A Tau player that buys Photon Grenades? Like they actually stand a chance of winning CC. FWs need to die badly, turn and run. He may not know that the Ethereal's rule is MAY reroll Morale tests. I'd use that against him by tying his squads down in CC and blocking LoS.

But yeah, Razorwing Jetfighter ftw.

Wow, now I want to charge his Kroot with my Wyches and/or Beasts.
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2013, 05:26

Razorwing... as others have said.

I have also had fantastic success in Running the Duke and Deep Striking Raiders deep behind enemy lines right next to their objectives.

Tau players tend to crap themselves when raiders full of Wychs with haywire grenades land in close proximity and their massive long range save bonuses vanish.

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Mushkilla
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Mushkilla

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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 30 2013, 07:22

@Balisong wrote:
I have also had fantastic success in Running the Duke and Deep Striking Raiders deep behind enemy lines right next to their objectives.

Even armies that don't run the Duke can do a similar thing by reserving their raiders and moving them flat out 30" on the turn they come in, it should get them right in the TAU's face in all but hammer and anvil deployment. Very Happy

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Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series


“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell
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False Son
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PostSubject: Re: Tau Issues   Tau Issues I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 03 2013, 22:46

Yes, but even if they come in on 2nd turn, they can't actually shoot if the transport goes Flat Out. Deep Striking is more risky, but even with snap shots, it's something. You could increase your odds with Splinter Racks, but it still doesn't seem like a silver bullet. Speed is the key, though. We can't outshoot an army with S5 guns when our transports are AV10. Best to isolate them and deny them LoS.
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