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mregular
Slave
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Join date : 2012-10-17

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PostSubject: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 18 2013, 22:21

Hello everyone,

From watching many games and playing many more, I have noticed that often times the big difference between a win and a loss is one player knowing the rules better. Example, here is my list of things I have written on my roster so that I never forget them! If anyone could add to these that would be amazing as we can often glance over a rule that has game changing effects!


Dark Eldar Specific
1.Throw Haywire Grenades in shooting phase.
2. Dark Lances add +1 to damage chart result.
3. PGL grants Stealth if the enemy is within 8" adding +1 to cover.
4. Always move to get 5+ Jink cover save with vehicles.
5. If attacking with a poisoned weapon and your Strenght is equal or higher,to the enemy, you must re-roll failed to wound rolls.


40k Specific
1. You can't charge what you can't see. (This is the biggest game changer IMO that people overlook. If you are standing behind a very large peice of impassable terrain they more often cannot charge you!)
2. Focus fire is a good option if an IC or Special Weapon is better hidden withing the squad ie. behind a wall versus behind a bush.


Hopefully I can add to my tips and that we can all benefit from a tidbit of information that we missed here or there!

Woohoo!
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alexwellace
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 18 2013, 22:49

Dark Eldar specific.

1. Reavers remembered to bring their pistols and knives, so have 3 attacks + HoW on the charge
2. Plasma granades are amazing, dont forget. Necrons melt.
3. ''Hey, that unit is doing well for me. I should get another, maybe two.''
4. Most dark eldar beat shooty armies in combat even with warriors.
5. dark eldar have night vision.
6. Be fluid in your deployment. If thy hated enemy deepstrikes unto your side, boost up unto his.

which brings us onto

40k specific

1. DONT FORGET NIGHT FIGHTING, i mean it. DONT FORGET NIGHT FIGHTING. engrave it onto your forehead.
2. Know thy enemy for when thy unholy enemy trys to pull a fast one.
2. Use cover, Use speed, Use the night.
3. Know thy devine codex by heart, thy stat lines and thy weapons. Blast pistols are indeed only 6'' range and thu useless Khadblahblah (close enough) is not an IC.
4. Know thy cheese and have a nose for it. Thy ram cannot be targetted nor thy blessed sail.
5 final. for now. When live gives you lemons, throw them back and demand dragonfruit with a bast pistol to there head. Just because thy unit is more cost effective dost not mean it be better.
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ThePhish
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 18 2013, 22:55

DE specific
-Roll combat drugs before the game starts. I'm a stickler for the rules and will not use them at all if I don't roll before the game starts.
-Remember Nightshields. I don't put NS on everything, so paying attention to what's getting shot and the range of who's shooting is a big deal.
-Don't ignore the pain token sitting on the table in front of you. ie. be sure and roll for fnp.


In General:
-Target Priority! Look at the enemies forces before you ever start moving and determine what the biggest threats to you are and remove them first, asap.
-Don't forget to roll reserves. I don't use reserves often, and will forget them regularly. Yes, I've left 200 points in reserve for an entire game before. Not a fun revelation bottom of turn 5, even though I still won the game, barely.
-Don't forget what your Warlord trait is. It's a one time roll that's game specific. Harder for me to remember, especially since 50% of my rolls end up irrelevant and not used the prior game.
-Throw 'any' grenade in shooting phase.
-beware overwatch. Make sure you're close enough in the movement phase to lose a couple of models and still make into cc.
-Model placement is key. Don't leave special weapons exposed to enemy fire, but don't leave them sitting too far back to not be able to make an impact in the shooting phase.
-You're allowed to measure everything, so do so.


Like you, I keep a list of things like this on a separate sheet of paper than my army list. I read over it before a game. There's nothing I hate worse than focusing too much on some things and forgetting small things, only to remember them after the game is over. I'm not as diligent for friendly games, but I will study it before a tournament. Sometimes, fundamental things are better than a brilliant strategy.
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mregular
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 18 2013, 22:59

YES to the Nightfighting! I always forget to roll on it in the later turns if we don't get it at the start! +1 added to my list!

Also ThePhish, yes to overwatch! No reason to have special weapons leading the charge anymore. Your VB, HB, PW, etc. should almost always be the last troops to charge.

Also:
DE specific: EVERYTHING has fleet! Don't forget the re-rolls!
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 19 2013, 00:19

1) Going to ground in area terrain gives you +2 to cover saves.
2) You can move a vehicle after a unit embarks if it hasn't already moved.
3) You cannot move a vehicle after a unit embarks if it has already moved.
4) Fleet lets you re-roll your run dice.
5) If a firing unit can't see any part of the facing they are in (front, side or rear), but they can still see another facing of the target vehicle, they can still take the shot but the vehicle get's +1 to it's cover save.

Hope that helps. Smile

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Sathonyx
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 19 2013, 03:37

The Phish already hit 2 of mine I've been forgetting as a newbie.....earned pain tokens and combat drug bonuses/buffs
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Silverglade
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 21 2013, 00:38

@alexwellace wrote:
Dark Eldar specific.

4. Know thy cheese and have a nose for it. Thy ram cannot be targetted nor thy blessed sail.
better.

Could you please point out where in the rules you're getting that from? I REALLY hope you're right, as I certainly have had scenarios where my sail is popping up over an obsticle.
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Damnosus
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 21 2013, 06:54

@Silverglade wrote:
@alexwellace wrote:
Dark Eldar specific.

4. Know thy cheese and have a nose for it. Thy ram cannot be targetted nor thy blessed sail.
better.

Could you please point out where in the rules you're getting that from? I REALLY hope you're right, as I certainly have had scenarios where my sail is popping up over an obsticle.

The only parts of the vehicle that can be targeted is any weapons and the "hull." If you look up the definition of a hull, it excludes things such as the ram and the sail. It isn't specifically in the rules, but it makes sense once the definition of a hull is determined.
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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 21 2013, 22:59

The hull is where all firing to the model is generally done, and where all embark/disembark measurements are done from. p73 of the rulebook has "When a unit fires at a vehicle it must be able to see its hull or turret (ignoring the vehicles gun barrels, antennas, decorative banner poles etc)". Since DE vehicles lack a turret, all that's left is a hull. I don't think you'd get many people arguing that the sail was part of the hull... if it is, then you can technically draw line of sight from that for firing (being an open-topped vehicle) and for disembarking.

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commandersasha
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 21 2013, 23:01

You have to admit, though, that jumping from the sail-tip onto an upper level of a ruin WOULD be epic..!
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Kinnay
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 21 2013, 23:29

I agree that the sail is not part of the hull, but I'd argue that the ram indeed is.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 00:58

The Phish hit it already, but you'd be shocked how many times that I've forgotten to roll/use my combat drugs Mad

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Damnosus
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 04:39

@Kinnay wrote:
I agree that the sail is not part of the hull, but I'd argue that the ram indeed is.

The problem with including the ram is that it allows for some really atrocious deployments: line your barges parallel to your deployment zone line then turn them once it is your turn thus allowing you to get an additional 3+ inches to your move. That is pretty bogus. I have always thought of the hull in terms of 40k as any part of your vehicle that you have to include from the original kit in order for it to still be considered that vehicle. I could totally not include the sail, the ram, or the rudder and still have a Raider. The body (or hull in my opinion) is the part which defines a vehicle as a Raider. Besides, fluff wise, what would happen if the ram did get shot at? Nothing unless hitting it prompted some sort of damage elsewhere on the boat (like a ricochet or something).

More on topic, I gotta get better about Night Fight and Combat Drugs. I always forget those. Also, I seem to have a hard time with proper placement of special weapons within a unit of reavers. I guess it's because I can't actually see the different weapons from a top down view.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 06:49

6) Finish off non-vehicle units with non-vehicles units so you don't waste those pain tokens. Smile

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Panic_Puppet
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 12:09

@Damnosus wrote:
@Kinnay wrote:
I agree that the sail is not part of the hull, but I'd argue that the ram indeed is.
More on topic, I gotta get better about Night Fight and Combat Drugs. I always forget those. Also, I seem to have a hard time with proper placement of special weapons within a unit of reavers. I guess it's because I can't actually see the different weapons from a top down view.

For the reavers, try painting a specific design on ones with special weapons. I.e. a specific glyph on one of the tail fins or something. That way you'll know which is which without having to check underneath.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 12:24

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
@Damnosus wrote:
@Kinnay wrote:
I agree that the sail is not part of the hull, but I'd argue that the ram indeed is.
More on topic, I gotta get better about Night Fight and Combat Drugs. I always forget those. Also, I seem to have a hard time with proper placement of special weapons within a unit of reavers. I guess it's because I can't actually see the different weapons from a top down view.

For the reavers, try painting a specific design on ones with special weapons. I.e. a specific glyph on one of the tail fins or something. That way you'll know which is which without having to check underneath.

I'm thinking of adding some banner poles or something to mine as I always have this issue.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 12:28

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I'm thinking of adding some banner poles or something to mine as I always have this issue.

I know each one of my individual reavers by face and name. Wink

7) With reavers, if they didn't turbo boost, use their eldar jetbike move to move the blaster/heatlances reavers from the front to the back (or wherever is safest), this way they always get the their maximum threat range of 12"+ 9" or 12"+18", whilst still keeping them safe from shooting.

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Kinnay
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 14:55

@Damnosus wrote:
@Kinnay wrote:
I agree that the sail is not part of the hull, but I'd argue that the ram indeed is.
The problem with including the ram is that it allows for some really atrocious deployments: line your barges parallel to your deployment zone line then turn them once it is your turn thus allowing you to get an additional 3+ inches to your move. That is pretty bogus.

Sorry for going off-topic again, but I don't see that problem of "turning the Raider and getting extra movement". It just really never happens! Everyone I have ever played against and I myself always simply measure from the hull before the Raider has turned. This way I don't receive any extra movement, as the point of the model closest to where I'm moving to never gets any further than the intended range.

So for example I'd place my Raider parallel to the deployment line as far forward as possible, then measure 12" from the point of the hull closest to my opponents table edge, mark the point I would reach, turn the model and move it directly towards my opponent. Like this, The tip of the Raider will be exactly 12" away from my deployment line, but the Raider will have turned 90°.
Let's be honest here, gents, everything else is just not right.

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ThePhish
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 21:03

@Mushkilla wrote:
6) Finish off non-vehicle units with non-vehicles units so you don't waste those pain tokens. Smile

That's a big one. Can't earn that pain token if you don't. Goes back to target priority, and being careful of what we shoot and what order. don't want to be too killy with a unit that's just supposed to soften up the target and vice versa, we don't want to end up softening up the target for a vehicle to wipe.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 21:41

@ThePhish wrote:
@Mushkilla wrote:
6) Finish off non-vehicle units with non-vehicles units so you don't waste those pain tokens. Smile

That's a big one. Can't earn that pain token if you don't. Goes back to target priority, and being careful of what we shoot and what order. don't want to be too killy with a unit that's just supposed to soften up the target and vice versa, we don't want to end up softening up the target for a vehicle to wipe.

Main reason I prefer warriors in raiders as opposed to venoms (despite venoms being awesome).

I think it's also important to plan your pain tokens a bit, they are a valuable resource unique to our army. I like to make sure my reavers snatch up pain tokens on the turn they come in from reserve. So I make sure there are 1-2 units that I have soften up for their bladevanes. However, certain models compete for pain tokens, for example I used to run talos, but I found that they needed pain tokens just as much as my reavers to be effective, as a result both units were working against each other. So I stopped running the Talos.

Pain tokens are a valuable resource try and have a rough plan of what units need tokens and when they should try to get them, this will go a long way to getting the most out of the power from pain special rule.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 21:43

Even without the ram, the extra movement from turning still happens on a Raider since it's atleast twice as long as it is wide. I don't abuse it by flaying all my skimmers sideways or anything, but it has occasionally helped me when I've flown my Raider to the unit I want to assault and turned it to face them directly.

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ThePhish
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 21:59

I ran into some of that recently branching out, trying new things with the Talos/Cronos. I'll have to remember that in the future and put a little more thought into the list. Good advice.
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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 22:15

@Panic_Puppet wrote:
@Damnosus wrote:
@Kinnay wrote:
I agree that the sail is not part of the hull, but I'd argue that the ram indeed is.
More on topic, I gotta get better about Night Fight and Combat Drugs. I always forget those. Also, I seem to have a hard time with proper placement of special weapons within a unit of reavers. I guess it's because I can't actually see the different weapons from a top down view.

For the reavers, try painting a specific design on ones with special weapons. I.e. a specific glyph on one of the tail fins or something. That way you'll know which is which without having to check underneath.

My special weapons Reavers all have faceshields which are painted gold, as opposed to the other faceshield Reavers, whose shields are silver. Much like a welder, you need special eye protection when firing lances! affraid
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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 22:54

I'd like to add two subtle additions of my own.

1. Make sure you deploy everything in your army - Once at a 1850 tournament I forgot to deploy Baron and a large unit of Hellions versus Grey Knights (I somehow still won).
2. Remember to fire everything - I now work my way across the table with my army so I don't forget to shoot, the amount of times I forgot...

Very simply additions, don't be silly like me.

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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Tips/Things to remember   Tips/Things to remember I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 22 2013, 23:26

I make a cheatsheet for myself. On one side it has my list and all of the stats for my army, and on the other it has all of the charts, relevant rules (drugs, warlord traits, etc...) as well as spaces for me to write what my drugs are, what my warlord trait is, my opponent's name, army, warlord, warlord trait, who went first, whether or not initiative was seized, whether or not turn one NF is in play, as well as ticks for who gets first blood, who kills whose warlord, and linebreaker for each. This way I can study what happened afterwards in addition to keeping track of the action ingame.

I also keep track of my Venoms/Raiders with a colored dice system. I keep a die on the relevant vehicle (which records hullpoints) that corresponds to a die kept with the unit embarked on the vehicle. I try to arrange these dice with my strategy in mind. I use the standard ROYGBIV pattern in order of intended action so that I have a visual reminder of what I intend to do, and to make it easy to run through the ranks of repetitive vehicles without forgetting to at least wiggle one for jink, much less shoot/move if I need to. If a unit is embarked the die remains on the vehicle. If it disembarks, the die is placed alongside the base.

I also have made pain tokens out of spare spears/lances/chains/skulls which accompany units so that I don't forget who does and doesn't have tokens.

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