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 Ravagers full BS VS flyers?

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Godreas
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PostSubject: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 11:41

Hey, for quite a while ive seen a lot of talk on the internet and in my community on the following FAQ update

“Aerial Assault: Due to the largely open construction of its decks
and the sophisticated targeting matrices used by its crew, a
Ravager that moved at cruising speed may fire all of its weapons
using its crew’s full Ballistic Skill.”

So this basicly means that RAW, I can shoot full BS at any target (including flyers)

but on the other hand when you think about it RAI, it only stands for the idea of being able to move 12" and having the possibility to fire normally.

I have not found any such discution on the forum (in the past 3 pages of the rules area) so i thought that it might be a idea to bring it up.

Can anyone clarify this please?

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 11:43

It has come up and the general consensus was RAI

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Godreas
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 11:45

@Massaen wrote:
It has come up and the general consensus was RAI

What rules backup the RAI version?
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 11:50

By the above FAQ, moving anything other than cruising makes you worse at shooting... Make sense?

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Godreas
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 12:04

@Massaen wrote:
By the above FAQ, moving anything other than cruising makes you worse at shooting... Make sense?

to me it does Very Happy, lets see if the lads back at the shop agree. Tyvm.
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 12:19

You are correct, sort of. You do hit it with a BS4, however you end up shooting snap shots.

BRB p. 81 says "Hard to Hit" - unless you have the Skyfire special rule, you will always be doing Snap shots on zooming flyers.

And Snap shots are forced to being counted as BS1 for the purpose of the shots. (BRB p. 13).

---

The idea is nice but sadly not true Smile

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 12:41

Full debate here.

Consensus is that you can't use Aerial Assault to bypass Hard to Hit

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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 12:42

Yeah, there are 2 very seperate rules going on in regards to Ravagers firing at Flyers that have been outined above.

Incase the guys at the shop need to look it up its a case of Aerial Assault vs Hard to Hit

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 16:32

also the FAQ put this arguement to rest along time ago.

Quote :
Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that
modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Tau
markerlights, Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of
Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 22:25

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
also the FAQ put this arguement to rest along time ago.

Quote :
Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that
modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Tau
markerlights, Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of
Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

This ruling doesn't affect Aerial Assault, because it doesn't modify the BS of a models shooting attack, but to the contrary allows it to use it's unmodified BS.

If Aerial Assault was affected by this FAQ, there would be two big problems.
1.: Aerial assault would do nothing at all. Moving at cruising speed forces vehicles to fire snap shots with their third and subsequent weapons. If Aerial Assault would not work against snap shots it would not work against those it was intended to negate, either.
2.: Skyfire wouldn't work. Skyfire, as Aerial Assault, allows models to use their full BS, when shooting at flyers. If This was blocked by the FAQ, Skyfire would become useless.


Nevertheless I think it should only work against snap shots resulting from having moved at cruising speed, but as it is written it could work against flyers.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Ravagers full BS VS flyers?   Ravagers full BS VS flyers? I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 15 2013, 14:36

see to me though Tiri I read it differently. I read it as this

Hard to Hit rule for flyers means you have to snapfire to hit them (need 6s)

Airial Assault says you fire at full BS no matter what (hence modifying the snapfire rule)

This FAQ says you cannot modify when you have to snapfire

you are right though, if this does effect it though, it would mean airial assault would never work, as moving at 12 means you have to snapfire 1 gun. but personally its a GW oversight again. I do think this FAQ effects it, as I stated above. You do put good points though, I guess it comes down to ways of interpretation

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