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 Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 12:01

So I played a game today where my Archon absorbed 30 wounds with his Shadow field but there was a little question that came up. Last edition you couldn't allocate more than one wound to a model unless you allocate one to every other model in the rest of the squad. In the new edition, you allocate to the closest model until he dies then you move to the next and so forth. When a vehicle explodes the controlling player allocates but does that mean I can allocate to my Shadow field archon and hence save the rest of the squad by saving all the wounds on the shadow field? It seems slightly dubious but will be handy considering generally I lose all my wyches in an explosion. Any opinions?
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Delvian
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 14:15

The rules say that the controlling player allocates any wounds caused. You could argue yes, but it's a bit unrealistic dont you think? If a problem like this crops up, I always try to look at it from a neutral and realistic point of view e.g. If a vehicle explodes, could the tough guy with his shadow field shield everyone from the blast? No. I think that would be the fair way of looking at it, but that's just my opinion.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 14:34

It's a game, it's abstract.

As far as rules are concerned you can do it. Personally I don't have a problem with it. Is it anymore cheesy than all the shots fired at some grey hunters hitting the terminator wolfguard in front? No.

Need a fluff reason? The Archon lands first and uses his awesome agility and skill to catch all the members of the crew, one after another like the boss he is. Wink

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Last edited by Mushkilla on Sun Jan 13 2013, 14:49; edited 1 time in total
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Shinobi_8745
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 14:43

@Mushkilla wrote:

Need a fluff reason? The Archon lands first and uses his awesome agility and skill to catch all the members of the crew, one after another like the boss he is. Wink
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Delvian
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 17:21

Bahaha! If that works for you fella!
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 17:33

Think about it, it makes perfect sense.

The Archon can't be bothered catching a bunch of useless minions who just want to stab in the back (You decide not to allocate any wounds to the archon).

The Archon catches the most attractive wyches and decides to dodge the rest (you decide to allocate a few wounds to the archon and look out sir the rest).

The Archon slips and a wych lands on him, the force of impact takes out his shadow field... (you roll a 1).


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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 17:53

"Realistic" means very little when everything that's happening is an abstraction made up to fit die results. I mean how exactly is the transport going down? How does it blow up or how does the attack that brought it down doing so? That's all up to you to make up. If you allocate the wounds to the archon then you simply need to make up a scenario that makes that work for you (if you even care about the fluff to begin with).
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Delvian
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 18:12

Sure, but I play with friends, and try to make sure the game is enjoyable for us both. So when rule queries come up, we look at it like the way I said, and it works for us 90% of the time. If I tried to use every rule query to suit myself, that wouldn't be fun for both parties.

And all games aren't abstract. Some people like realism, and some people care a great deal about the fluff! It's the difference between Need For Speed and Gran Turismo, or C&C and the Total War Games. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 19:00

Sure but what's wrong with saying the shadow field extends to provide sufficient cover for the rest of the squad or that the others jump off while the archon is the last one off the crashing ship and that's why the wounds go to him? Like I said you can explain this any number of ways and none of those ways is wrong or unfair.
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Delvian
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 19:27

It's entirely up to you, but I would be pretty upset if I was playing someone and they gave those 2 responses! The shadow field extending to protect everyone else?!?! Come on, that's ridiculous! How come you can't do that in other contexts?! Like say protecting an entire unit of Wyches from the back when they are shot at! The reason you can't is because it isn't right!
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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 19:49

I'm not saying it's enveloping the squad just that it provides sufficient "cover" from the front (rather then being skin tight around the archon's form it's a haze around him) that "shelters" the squad behind him from explosive debris and the like (which can also explain why shooting from the front can all be allocated to the archon). Or perhaps the crash/wreck was relatively painless (ie not fatal) and what would have killed the squad was the Lascannon shot piercing the hull and cutting through the squad inside, but thanks to the archon being in the way the Shadow Field blocked it.
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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 21:37

I think we're missing the point here guys. I don't care whether it is fluffy, I'm just so sick of losing 180 points to a 30 point battle suit. Is it legal?

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Delvian
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 22:11

Fair play. As you can see its one you might have to debate with your opponent! The rules are quite vague, perhaps you might just get away with it. I'd say keep that Raider in cover! :p
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 13 2013, 23:30

@Delvian wrote:
Fair play. As you can see its one you might have to debate with your opponent! The rules are quite vague, perhaps you might just get away with it. I'd say keep that Raider in cover! :p

The rules aren't vague at all - allocate the hits as per the shooting rules, except that the controlling player effectively chooses who is 'closest'. You then make saves on this model until it's dead or the wound pool is used up. If you object to it on 'fluff' grounds that's fine, but if you don't play that way you'd be playing against the rules...this kind of wound allocation was one of the big changes from 5th to 6th edition. Think about how a single model can take all the hits from a large blast weapon or flamer, it's really no different. The game rules are still abstract to a degree....you'd be happy to have, say, a flesh gauntlet instant-kill a necron character right?

In the example of the OP, taking all those hits on the Archon is a calculated risk. If you lose the shadow field, you can end up with a dead or suddenly very vulnerable archon. If i was your opponent I wouldn't be bothered at all by such risk taking!

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 00:06

With an Archon it was risky but I think I might use it with my corsair prince as well once he's cleared his ordnance...

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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 00:27

@Delvian wrote:
As you can see its one you might have to debate with your opponent!

The only thing I was "debating" with you was your opinion that it was "unrealistic" to allocate the wounds to the Archon. That as nothing to do with what the rules say nor does it indicate they are vague.
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 03:01

good'ol archons
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 08:11

@Delvian wrote:
The rules are quite vague, perhaps you might just get away with it...

Hehe, there's nothing vague about the rules, they are perfectly clear, so no need to guilt people into thinking they are getting away with something. Ork players do this all the time with mega armour warbosses tanking the explosion on his 2+ save.

But then again it's easy to explain things with orks:

Ork: Why is all dem beaky bullets hitting da boss in mega armour?
Smartboy: Easy stupid it's cause 'e is so big his gravitational field is pulling dem bullets off course. Dat or da mek put big magnets in his armour!
Ork: Here if it were magnets wouldn't our bullets and gubbins get attracted to him?
Smartboy: Errr are you sure your no smartboy?

It's part of the game and the rules are perfectly clear. Like Merkglow said the only thing we were debating was how to explain it. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 10:17

To echo everyone else, the rules are perfectly clear in allowing this. I don't like risking the Shadowfield, especially because Incubi actually wear armor, but it's a completely legal option.

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FenWulf
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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 14 2013, 19:49

I agree that it would be no different than how the WG is used in a unit of GH.

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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 00:08

Yep, tank away - and since the wounds are allocated like shooting, I'm pretty sure you get the parachute of a Look Out Sir! roll if you start having second thoughts - or blow the shadow field on the first wound. (This shadow field is CHEAP!)

Also, welcome to the Dark City, FenWulf!

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PostSubject: Re: Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?    Wound Allocations: Shennagins or Cheating?  I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 19 2013, 02:51

Well with the new FAQ's out now you have to make sure that he's within the range.

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