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 Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!

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BMD
Mushkilla
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Blank05
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PostSubject: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 21:20

Sorry for the cliché.

Anyway, noob question here. I tried finding a topic on this, but I couldn’t, so here we go.

When it comes to Reavers and their Bladevanes (BV), Cluster Caltrops (CC), and Grav-Talons (GT), do the weapon upgrades, CC and GT, replace the BV or do they get added to them?

For example, 6 Reavers with 1x CC and 1x GT. After Turbo-Boosting, do you roll 6d3(6 BV), 1d3(1 GT with pinning) and 1d6(CC), or do the CC and GT replace the Reaver’s BV and you roll 4d3 (4 BV), 1d3 (1 GT with pinning) and 1d6(CC).

I hope this is clear, and thanks in advance for the clarification.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 21:35

They replace them.

Hope that helps. Smile

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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 22:39

I actually disagree... The codex doesn't say it replaces them, and unless I missed something it doesn't say so in the errrata either. Even if you look at the model, the bladevanes are a permanant part of the Reaver. The Cluster Caltrop is an add-on. I should clarify that I have always played the the way Mushhkilla just explained, but the OP made me think about it, and double check.
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Blank05
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 23:28

I'm inclined to agree with BMD. At least half way. The Cluster Caltrops entry reads:

"A model with Cluster Caltrops inflicts D6 S6 AP- hits with it's Bladevanes"

The "...with it's Bladevanes." part , I think, is the key point. So I feel that they replace the Bladevanes, but the Grav-Talon entry reads:

" A Grav-Talon can be used in the same way as bladevanes, inflicting D3 S4 AP- hits."

The Grav- Talon sounds, to me, like you can choose bladevanes OR Grav-Talon.

The long and short of it is...

I'm not sure... lol
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 23:43

Ah, forgot to check the beastiary entry of the codex. Damn, my half-assedness! lol
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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 23:55

Notice the wording in the FAQ:
Quote :
Page 29 – Reavers, Grav-talon.
Change to: “If a model with a grav-talon inflicts one or more unsaved Wounds with its bladevanes (see above) the target unit must immediately take a pinning test.”

That reads to me like its a modification to the Bladevane not a new weapon same with Caltrops (one adds a pinning test the other ups the die roll). As such I believe the second answer is correct, 4D3, 1D3 w/Pinning, 1D6.
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Blank05
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 19 2012, 00:16

Thanks for all the input!

^_^
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Mt252368
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 19 2012, 04:06

Just wondering if I can add a question to the topic,

What if you are bladevaning a squad in ruins, but they are on a middle floor. So they can't be seen when looking directly overtop of the unit, but can be seen before the bladevane attack. Are we still allowed to make the attack, or is there a rule saying otherwise.

Thanks
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Seelenberührer
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 19 2012, 04:31

Good question.

My first thought was that you still could, as it would be like the jetbikes going almost vertical and getting them on the way past, but the more I think about it, the less sense this makes. The movement is presumably based on an arc of least distance, rather than moving horizontally, and then vertically, and then horizontally again....
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 19 2012, 05:11

For the chaos screamer dudes, this is very clear where you use the final position and then normal wound allocation (where the if no model can be seen rule would then apply).
For ours, its not clear at which point you would check so decide with your play group before hand

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Mt252368
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 19 2012, 05:31

Ok, sounds good.

That's how we have been playing, is that they have to be visible and the unit clearly able to be decapitated by the bladevanes in order to make the 'attack'. Smile

Thanks for the quick responses!
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 19 2012, 06:51

As Murkglow pointed out they addressed it in the FAQ the grav-talon to replace the bladevane (the caltrops were already listed as replacing the bladevanes). Before the FAQ you could technically do 2D3 hits with grav-talons. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!!   Bladevanes, Cluster Caltrops, and Grav-Talons... OH MY!!!! I_icon_minitime

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