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doomseer11b
Sybarite
doomseer11b

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Join date : 2012-10-09
Location : South Carolina

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PostSubject: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 14:19

So scourges are pretty expensive as you all know. however, i had read an post a while back talking about this and would like a recap if yall dont mind. So i read that scourges die rather quickly, are they even worth taking anymore? and if so, how do we field them? i originally wanted haywire blasters on them, but is that the best way? if they DO survive, haywire would be kind of dumb. so do we give them dark lances, heat lances? is 22 points a model worth it? i would think they are as survivable as hellions right (around the same with there cover save w/ baron). they move 12 inches at at a time so thats good i guess. i dont know, i need some expert advise please. i have 10 of them and hope theyre not just nice shelf pieces.

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 14:30

Much as I love the Scourge models I simply don't have room for them in my lists at the moment. My Fast Attack slots are generally taken up with a large Beast unit and a couple of Reaver units. Reavers and Scourges cost the same but IMO there is simply no comparison between the two. Reavers are faster, tougher andjust as shooty.

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foeofnight
Hellion
foeofnight

Posts : 64
Join date : 2011-11-04

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 18:45

You can use them if you have the models but they just play different and are generally overshadowed by other fast attack compared to 5th ed.

Dont take Dark Lances on them as that removes their mobility advantage.
Haywire while good doesnt do what it used to. Last edition they were good stun lockers on tanks. This edition you will just remove a hull point and 1 hull point just wont cut it.
They do all come with shardcarbines so can be decent AI firepower but generally there are better options than this squad (3 Trueborn with splinter-cannons in venom)
Reavers are better at carrying a heat-lance into battle.
Better places to get a blaster and shredder.

Only have a 4 up save. Can be ignored by alot if the opponent wants to kill them they will.

If those are the models you have for fast attack.
Take the Haywire if you need more AT.
Take they stock or with splinter cannon if you want more AI
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Orthien
Sybarite
Orthien

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Join date : 2012-04-23

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 20:37

@foeofnight wrote:
Haywire while good doesnt do what it used to. Last edition they were good stun lockers on tanks. This edition you will just remove a hull point and 1 hull point just wont cut it.

I think they are a bit better than that. Sure your not stun locking as reliably but they can destroy a tank now, not by themselves due to only being able to score 2 HP reliably but having them drop behind a wounded tank to finish it off can be great at allowing your DL to move to new targets and HWB still are somewhat effective as AI once all the tanks in range are down.

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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 22:23

Baron can give them stealth and hit and run making them better.

I'd say Blasters still aren't a bad choice, in addition to the listed Haywire or S.Cannon options above

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Super Dave
Hellion
Super Dave

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Join date : 2012-07-26
Location : Denver... right about at that mile mark

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 23:25

Although the old dex's deployment shenanigans for Mandrakes is what drew me to DE originally, I've definitely switched to being a Scourge and Reaver fan. (Mandrakes have gone the way of the dodo for me) While we all have become accustomed to the fact that Reavers are fun, versatile, and definitely viable. (Mush-o-mania admittedly hitting home with me) Scourges are in my opinion just awesomeness in winged form, yet there seems to be either scathing reviews, or a lot of shrugged shoulders and "this probably should work," type ideas for their use.

I have been toying with some different build for a Scourge themed army. And a few options have come about (will hopefully sometime soon post one of my proposed lists in the army list forum) that i am going to try.

My main focuses of these army builds is to have all 3 of my Fast Attack slots be filled with a unit of Scourges (size dependent on points limit of game or other factors), and then from there my thought process was to try and make these three units as survivable as possible. So max out one HQ slot with 3 Haimies with Liquifier Guns.

The Haimies start on the board, one in each unit of Scourges. Then leave their respective units, leaving their pain tokens with the unit and boarding a nearby Venom with 4 Wracks inside. The Scourges then swoop off to spend time blasting vehicles with HWB or being jumping Shardcarbine delivery systems to light up troops.\

Those are my thoughts on some Scourgey goodness.

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doomseer11b
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doomseer11b

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 12 2012, 07:10

that sounds like a pretty good idea. i keep forgetting about all this pain token goodness. from what i can tell, it seems no matter what you pick in the DE, you have to really spam ONE thing and build your army around it. Mush seems like he reavers his list, you want to scourge it. I have read people wracking there lists. this is an expensive (actual money) army it seems, you really have to choose what you want and buy a ton of models. when i played eldar i usually had a widespread amount of everything from banshees to dark reapers. not so much in this army. So basically, its go big or go home lol just like with everything else. doesnt seem like throwing 10 models on the board is very viable. thanks guys

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Orthien
Sybarite
Orthien

Posts : 300
Join date : 2012-04-23

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 12 2012, 20:40

I wouldn't say spamming one unit is the way to go at all.
If your list consists of mostly one unit type then you are risking a lot of redundancy issues.
Reavers work somewhat because they have great speed and AT with some CC support for Mush's Wyches but they lack solid ranged power. If that list could be kept back away from the close range they need it would be completely in-effective. Wrack spam has a similar issue but with even greater reduced mobility.

A true DEldar list, one that will win games reliably against any list will have some variety. Yes some spam lists are counter to this but they require a specialty strategy that if overcome will render them useless.

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Murkglow
Kabalite Warrior
Murkglow

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Join date : 2012-10-17

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 12 2012, 20:56

Well "redundancy issues" go both ways. Have too many of one unit and you're only going to be able to do what that one unit can do. If you run into a situation where that unit isn't viable then you're in trouble. On the other hand, have too many different units and you might have no replacement for when that key unit you need gets blown away. From a DE standpoint I think repetition is a good thing due to how generally effective (Splinter and Darklight are both kinda "catch all" shooting attacks and compliment each other well) and how fragile they are.
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doomseer11b
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doomseer11b

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PostSubject: Re: scourges?   scourges? I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 13 2012, 08:50

point taken. in scourges case, could we label these in the same category as fire dragons? obviously no where near as potent, but still able to do some serious damage for about one turn and then theyre gone. our, swoop in and kill one thing kamakaze unit?

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