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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 07 2012, 22:09

Ok, so after coming of 40k overload with the hype up of 6th and all those games I shotguned right after the start of it. Its time for me to get back in after 2 months hiatus. So Ive been fighting over what should be my go-to list for this new edition. We have so many options given to us, and a plethora of different playstyles. I still always like to have one list I know will do well. And while my old 5th lists are still deadly viable, Ive noticed a few things about 6th that I find interesting.

And the first is the viablility of infantry elements in conjunction with nightshields. Now I know many people dont understand the use of nightshields, but I got really good at nightshields in the 3rd ed codex when that was the only protection. So I was stoked to hear flickerfields were not needed base anymore in 6th. Ever since my short stint with Harliestar Ive been playing with nightshields on everything.

But after many games, I came to an interesting conclusion about them. Having Nightshields hurts any non-vehicle you take in your army. The reason being is that because of premeasure, people can see when they are in range. Knowing they arent in range of the vehicles, they then target stuff that they can. And since bolters now have a 30" range (24" + 6" movement) anything not meched up just gets hit earlier now than before. This means more chances for dead models, and means less models in these squads for stuff you wanted them for later.

So I was pondering where to take this army from here. I either need A: durable non mech units, or all mech. The problem becomes I can fill up our elite, troop, and heavy slot and still have a ton of points to spend. So it hit me. Why not mash in a mini-harliestar??? They can take the damage required to be outisde a vehicle, and fulfill my need for a counter assault unit. They are also quick enough to keep up with the rest of my things, and if I keep taking personal with my warlord, he might be able to make them scoring (or just wreck face like normal)

So without further ado, here is my list:

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HQ:
150- Archon w/ Huskblade, Soultrap, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, Haywire

Troops
135- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
135- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
135- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
135- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
135- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Splinter Cannon, Nightshields
135- 5 Warriors w/ Blaster in Venom w/ Splinter Cannon, Nightshields

HS:
115- Ravager w/ NS
115- Ravager w/ NS
115- Ravager w/ NS

Allies
158- Farseer w/ Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Runes of Whitnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom, Fortune
200- 7 Harlies w/ kisses; Shadowseer w/ kiss; Troupe Master w/ Lance
66- 3 Guardian Jetbikes
145- Nightwing
125- Warp Hunter

So I have all my bases covered. Got my AI in venoms, got my AT in ravagers. The Nightwing will provide AA, and the Warp Hunter is there for a "OMG you didnt". As this is the only not hard to hit unit in the army, it will hide behind things and use its barrage rule to full effect.

The archon goes with the farseer and harlies, and marches around the board drawing fire as much as possible. I will lost likely put the farseer up front to take wounds, and anything that ignores cover or can ID her I will LoS! it to the Archon. That should act as a mini-Harliestar like I want it to be, and still keep the rest of them alive. The GJB are ofc my mandatory troop choice for the eldar, but atleast I will hold them in reserves and have them come screaming out to capture an objective.

So what do you guys think???

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Rauky
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 07 2012, 23:17

where will the archon go in this list
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 08 2012, 03:33

Quote :
The archon goes with the farseer and harlies

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curebdc
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 08 2012, 05:13

Harlies are teh awesome! What about 1 or 2 without kisses in the front just in case they have any wounds thrown on them? Lose the less valuable ones first and such.

Also love the warp hunter in this list. That would definitely add a really fun element to your HS area, and probably stress people out more than the ravagers. Nightwing duck also sounds great.

Sweet list dude!

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 08 2012, 05:14

What has your experience with single Warp Hunters been? I've only run them in pairs with my Corsair army and have found them to be much more reliable using the Aether Rift attack to clear objectives late in games. (At which there is no more reliable Eldar/Dark Eldar vehicle Twisted Evil ) I find their barrage attack to be a bit short-ranged and erratic with the full scatter unless used against mob infantry. 66% of the time you're causing a hull point or less against vehicles. You might try keeping one in reserve to prevent deep striking in your deployment zone and to keep them off the board for a turn or two to raise the likely hood that they will be available for Turn 5-6 objective clearing.

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 09:22

It sounds very good but.... the Archon and the Farseer dont have flip belts so they wont be able to keep up with the Harlies. Wouldn´t that slow down the unit or mass up your plan of placing the archon and the Farseer in front to take incoming fire?

Would Eldrad make sence? He is a bit more expencive but he is worth the points....

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Caranthir987
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 11:02

I like this list, its filth. A friend of mine nuked a unit of necron Spyders off the board 1st turn with his Warp Hunter @ the UKGT - I was on the next table and the Cron player's face was a picture.

Nightwing is also pretty awesome at air dominance... until IG are packing Hydras. but that funnily enough seems to be on the decline despite the increase of flyers. However, for trolling Night Scythes, Dakka jets, DE flyers the Nightwing is boss, and very good value

Troops - for eldar i think Guardian jetbikes is where its at these days, as I'm all about the cheap win and thats what they do.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 11:06

Scorpion wrote:

Would Eldrad make sence? He is a bit more expencive but he is worth the points....
Eldrad doesn't have fleet so he slows the unit even more.

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 13:27

True, I didn´t see that. Good call.
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 20:22

Your army looks pretty solid. It's similar to my 2000/1850 lists but I throw in baron and a beast pack for a second fast/annoyingly durable infantry unit. Most of these suggestions are pretty minor quibbles and I think you'll def have fun and do well with the list as is.

The warp hunter looks more useful as a deterrent to keep units from advancing with it's template rather than a useful barrage weapon (short range for barrage, mediocre BS). The harlies provide a similar deterrent so I'm not sure of it's usefulness (granted I've never actually used a Warp Hunter). I've been liking the Night Spinner lately (props to Mush for suggesting that one, albeit on a different forum), twin-linked makes it pretty accurate, 72" range means it can hit the entire board corner-to-corner, it's great against clusters of side AV10, and the diff/dang terrain can give us an even better mobility advantage. Also where are the rules for using a Warp Hunter in an Eldar list? I've looked through IA11 but only see it in the Corsairs list. I also just noticed that in the IA rules the warp hunter has a 5" blast (whereas in the original rules it has a small blast, which certainly changes things a bit).

I'm also not sure about the Nightwing, it's got some nice rules but looks overpriced to me. With only 2 Hull points you almost have to evade every time you're hit with more than 1 S6+ shot (3+ jink is nice though), and if you're allowing IA/FW models there's plenty of interceptor weapons to look out for. It looks decent against Xenos Fliers, but will likely struggle against AV12 Imperial Fliers. Although I can see how vector dancer can make it more survivable with clever positioning. (and admittedly this is all theory-hammer on my part having never used one)

When it comes to the harlie's farseer I've found a jetbike hugely useful. A re-rollable 3+ tanks (heavy) flamer hits and normal CC hits like crazy (so you can put characters on 2 sides and/or not risk the shadowfield), T4 and a re-rollable 4++ lets her eat S6-7 hits. Also since I don't use an archon with my harlies a Jetbike farseer lets them always move full speed (everyone ignores terrain and the farseer is still fleet on a jetbike), not as useful for you until/unless the archon dies but something to keep in mind. The jetbike is also great for last turn contesting.

Quote :
Troops - for eldar i think Guardian jetbikes is where its at these days, as I'm all about the cheap win and thats what they do.
Couldn't agree more with this, I always take 2 squads of 3 at 1750+ (plus my farseer)

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 20:58

The rules for the Warp Hunter in Eldar armies is found on page 181 of IA11. I wouldn't call BS4 mediocre, though I would also point out that barrages don't subtract the BS score in inches if you can't see the target.

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 22:15

Huh...not sure how I missed that (again my older rules have it at BS3, and craftworld Spinners are BS3 so it made sense), the updated rules are much better than the ones I have, may have to test it out.

Slightly off topic, can you use a Firestorm in a standard Eldar list or is that Corsairs only? Fluff suggests you should be able to but I can't seem to find it (although I'm apparently not the best at finding rules)
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 28 2012, 21:31

As someone still learning I'm curious the reason between taking the Archon built as you did at 150 and the Duke at the same cost...

Thanks in advance. Smile
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colinsherlow
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 28 2012, 21:49

I really hope that when eldar get there new book that they have warp hunters and hornets

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 31 2012, 15:14

AvInNebr wrote:
As someone still learning I'm curious the reason between taking the Archon built as you did at 150 and the Duke at the same cost...

Thanks in advance. Smile

Look at the stats. Duke is 150 for one less WS, BS, wound, and attack. On top of that his weapon really isnt that good in combat (its a glorified venom blade that sometimes might go through armor). Also look at the army, none of dukes abilities would benefit the army. His extra poison doesnt help as Im not running more than 5 warriors per squad. His re-roll on the drug chart doesnt help me because Im not running a bunch of cult units. His deepstrike is interesting, but secondary thought at best. Also for the purpose of the unit that he is with (the harlies), I need a challenger style character to keep the farseer safe from being picked out, and duke isnt all that good in combat (atleast not compared to a regular archon).

Im not downing duke as a character, but overall he is very expensive unless you want his abilities. That being said he is also a jack of all, master of none. And I dont like those types of characters.


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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 31 2012, 16:36

Shadows Revenge wrote:
AvInNebr wrote:
As someone still learning I'm curious the reason between taking the Archon built as you did at 150 and the Duke at the same cost...

Thanks in advance. Smile

Look at the stats. Duke is 150 for one less WS, BS, wound, and attack. On top of that his weapon really isnt that good in combat (its a glorified venom blade that sometimes might go through armor). Also look at the army, none of dukes abilities would benefit the army. His extra poison doesnt help as Im not running more than 5 warriors per squad. His re-roll on the drug chart doesnt help me because Im not running a bunch of cult units. His deepstrike is interesting, but secondary thought at best. Also for the purpose of the unit that he is with (the harlies), I need a challenger style character to keep the farseer safe from being picked out, and duke isnt all that good in combat (atleast not compared to a regular archon).

Im not downing duke as a character, but overall he is very expensive unless you want his abilities. That being said he is also a jack of all, master of none. And I dont like those types of characters.


Thanks SR! I appreciate hearing your thoughts and you have given me more to consider when building my lists.
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 03 2013, 18:16

NP. I have shied away from critiquing lists (you get really jaded after seeing so many of the same mistakes time and time again...) But list building theory is a specialty of mine. One to which more than a few here can attest to. If you ever need anymore help with any army for that matter, just PM me, or post something in one of the threads I mod, and mention me by name, and I will most likely respond Razz

Edit: Or you can do the easy method, which is hit me up in the chat at the bottom of the homepage. I am normally trolling around there for huge chunks of time.

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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12 2013, 06:36

have y ou adjusted this list since 6e Eldar came out?
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12 2013, 08:14

HokutoAndy wrote:
have y ou adjusted this list since 6e Eldar came out?

I'm also very curious about that Smile
Also when making these kind of harlistar lists, what do you do when you don't roll fortune? >_>
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12 2013, 08:51

The combat enhancing Spiritseer powers also bring something new to the table.
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PostSubject: Re: 2k Mini-Star   2k Mini-Star I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 12 2013, 14:54

No I have not. To be honest you almost cant make Harliestar lists anymore. The only way now is to take DE Harlies (as they still have the 6th edition FAQ for VoT = shrouding + stealth) Run 2 Farseers and hope you roll fortune. Its not really worth it in my opinion as it is alot of points for something that you may not get (although atleast the army itself would be cheaper due to the new Eldar Codex)

The closest thing we have to Harliestar now is the Bikertaire (I first talked about it Here) He has a 2+ re-rollable coversave while still being hard hitting and fast to boot. He is quite a character tbh, and easily is my new favorite unit to play with. If you like the harliestar idea, I would give him a run and see what you think. He might not be able to chew through a whole unit alone, but he will provide some of the fun that harliestar was.

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