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 Which fortification would you use?

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foeofnight
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PostSubject: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 05:38

I am looking to add in some eldar allies w/ fire dragons.
Would love to take the exarch with tank hunters and crack shot and throw him on the quad gun.

The only question I cant seem to answer is...

Take a Bastion? or Take a Ageis Defense Line?

I generally take a couple squads of splinter cannon trueborn that would enjoy the cover with the fire dragons.

Things I would like to hear...

1) Your experiences with each...
2) Pro's and Con's you see...
3) Does one provide better defense for the quad-gun over the other...


As for me
1) I have no experience thus far with either. Only playing against them.
2) The ADL seems great for hoards because it can stretch out so far. If it is in an open format you can place objectives near by for a foot squad to grab and guard. The ADL doesnt seem to add much in the way of vantage points for better firing lanes.
The Bastion obviously can be blown up which is no good... On the plus side it is tall and provides a great firing point for my squads. Just seems like it would be a big target saying shoot me!
3)My only thought on this topic would be that if I use the ADL that I could block Line of Sight to the gun to protect it more-so than if it were on a bastion.

Thanks!
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 08:08

ADL ic cheap and gives you some cover if you're deploying foot units (start Reavers or Helliosn behind one, or place an allied Farseer behind one as he can't ride in our vehicles). Extra cover is always nice.

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Cortez667
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 09:12

Fortificationsd are so against the fluff and the army list play-style, I just can't see a place for either.
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 10:03

Allies offer a change in playstyle though. You can take a more static unit to sit on an objective whilst your fast moving DE go do that voodoo that they do so well.

I almost always take an ADL and Quad Gun these days. The ability to place a large amount of 4+ cover pretty much anywhere you want is very nice and can also block off or hamper your opponents movement.

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Cortez667
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 10:08

...and so is everyone else; at least here in California.

They might as well make the Aegis line/equivlent-unit part of every armys fluff. That'd be lots of fun.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 10:30

One note on Fortifications. If you use the rules as written they are much less useful as you have to place them before any terrain is placed. Most people seem to think this is ridiculous though and will agree to place fortifications after terrain. Just something to be aware of depending on who you play with and how they handle this.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 11:34

The thing is a lot of environments have pre-set boards, or like to have a balanced table tournament style (so that disadvantage becomes moot). But I do agree placing 4+ terrain is a very powerful tool. Get's a bit boring when every army is using it.

And personally as useful as it is it's anathema to Dark Eldar style. The best fluff justification I could come up with was a stand for rich kabalite Nobles and their bodyguards to watch the Reaver Death race against the Mon'keigh. Smile

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 11:49

I agree it's boring but for 50 points the ability to place what, 30" (?) of 4+ cover pretty much anywhere you want is absolutely amazing. The Quad Gun also means you don't need to spend 145+ points on a flyer of your own if you don't want to.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 12:03

It's pretty game breaking, unless you have a lot of liquefiers.

That's where I think Talos will come into their own this edition, now that they benefit from area terrain, and FNP works against almost everything, they are just fantastic at denying objectives by effectively putting them out the game (no one wants to go near a talos) and/or flushing opponents off objectives with their liquifiers. They really are built for the terrain heavy warfare 6th edition seems to encourage (with all it's fortifications).

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Zaakath
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 14:27

While the various fortifications are (my opinion) very anti fluff for a base DE list, I can always see them as just finished a raid on some imperials, and having a counter attack come at them.

As for what to take; I think fire dragons are too short range to benefit from a bastion, but an aegis line that is set somewhat forward of your deployment, say 5" or so could be useful.
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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 18:05

I use an Aegis Line and Quad Gun and I have been very pleased with the results. Some opponents go to great lengths to kill the Gun on Turn 1, which gives my poor skimmers a break, as the gun is much more durable against autocannons and about as durable against lascannons, moreso in Night Fight, plus it can't suffer penetrating hits!

For my fluff justification, I imagine that my Dark Eldar would not call in aid from their Eldar allies for any mere raid, but only for a proper war, the kind where they might have to face the likes of Draigo and Imotekh. Thus, it would be a perfectly cromulent reasonable thing for advanced scouts to lay down a highly portable defensive line complete with an ultra-lightweight weapons platform for the advancing Aspect Warriors to use.

I will note that the Bastion is a better idea if you have the Necron Airforce in your sights. The high angle makes you more able to spot the hidden Turn 1 unit and blast it off with your AP 4 twin-linked S7 cover-ignoring shoota. You can try and force them to hide in very predictable completely out of sight areas which your other forces may be able to reach Turn 1, or else make them put more units on the board, which can also reduce the effectiveness of their null deployment. You can also hide Shadow Weavers behind it!

For everyday play, I would say Aegis. Easier to scratch-build a conversion, too, at least hope so!

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 18:15

Fluffwise I'd assume the defence line was part of an Imperial emplacement and the DE are just taking cover behind like they would in any other ruins in the field. It also has an operating gun so why not use it to shoot down some flyers?

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StaticVortex
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 07 2012, 01:58

My dark kin have claimed a former imperial bastion, adorning it appropriately with spikes skewering the corpses of fallen enemies. Turning it into their very own torture chamber of splintery death.

It has served well to provide unexpected shenanigans. I typically run it with a few trueborn up top with splinter cannons and a troop choice inside...usually warriors (with an objective nearby to be claimed late game)
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 09 2012, 05:16

In a recent tournie, in two separate games my Reavers used their heat lances to quickly crash three bastions down upon the Beakies hiding inside them, which then quickly died in a hail of Venom fire, etc.

Last night I shot and killed a quad gun with one of my Ravvies, first turn. My Reavers then blade vaned back an forth over the defence line.

I don't take fortifications because they don't fit my play style or the DE fluff, and they don't necessarily last any longer than anything else on the tabletop. But I am also lucky in that my club's tables usually feature plenty of other, excellent cover.
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 10 2012, 01:11

I also use the ADL with Quad-gun and find it ridiculously handy particularly for things with Stealth/Shrouded. It would be great for Harlequins and Beasts+Baron to start behind to help them live for a bit.

Fluff wise I always assumed the DE would Deepstrike some quick-deploy walls or forceshields down with their first wave of assault as to maximize the effectiveness of the First Strike.

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Uberwilhelm
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 14:25

@Cortez667 wrote:
Fortificationsd are so against the fluff and the army list play-style, I just can't see a place for either.

Very true. DE are NOT a dig in a defend army. I tried that once and got absolutely destroyed. If the DE aren't advancing and attacking, they might as well be dead.
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 20:33

@Uberwilhelm wrote:
Very true. DE are NOT a dig in a defend army. I tried that once and got absolutely destroyed. If the DE aren't advancing and attacking, they might as well be dead.

I think thats a bit narrow minded. Yes DEldar aren't going to camp somewhere for an extended period of time when raiding a planet but that doesn't mean a raid wont include some kind of DL of Hexrifle sniper unit etc.
Keeping your whole list back and defending is definitely not for us but that does not mean having a unit in a defensive position is not a solid tactic. Nor does that mean the defensive position has to be at the back of the field. I deploy my ADL forward past my deployment zone to discourage my opponent from sweeping down the middle and hopefully separate his army along the flanks.

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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 21:42

I have not yet got any fortifications, but when I buy some, I will just get Imperial ones and desecrate them with blood, chains and heads on sticks. I think it fits perfectly with the fluff to think that DE might set up a temporary base in a bastion they have taken in order to conduct a little light torture whilst the wider raid continues. They could well still be there when an attempted counter-attack comes.

As for tactics, my lists quite often include a static unit or two to lay down some covering fire for my mobile contingent. I think an ADL would suit me nicely, especially if my Sniperborn happen to have captured some nice AA firepower along with it.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 11 2012, 23:28

@Plastikente wrote:
I have not yet got any fortifications, but when I buy some... in order to conduct a little light torture whilst the wider raid continues

Plastikente doesn't do fortifications, but if he did... they would probably be the best fortifications in realspace.

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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 12 2012, 01:25

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Plastikente wrote:
I have not yet got any fortifications, but when I buy some... in order to conduct a little light torture whilst the wider raid continues

Plastikente doesn't do fortifications, but if he did... they would probably be the best fortifications in realspace.

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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 12 2012, 18:51

I'm flattered, I think. Of course, my fortifications will be an amalgamation of the best practice I can find from everyone else on the boards, so they're bound to be great Smile

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Scorpion
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 20:53

I an currently playing with the idea of having an ADL with a comms relay in a WWP list. 2 WWP. A couple of Taloi and bikes in reserve. And 2 units maning the ADL. A trueborn Unit of 5 with 2 DL and a Unit of 10 warriors with DL and blaster. I an not done with the list yet and I May even put it up on the list site for some feedback from you guys but I Think that it has potential. Ever thought of using the combination of WWP and comms relay? Dó any of you have any experiences with it?
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 18 2012, 22:10

I think if you are going to use a WWP then an ADL with Comms is a good addition as long as you remember you can't assault out of them etc now.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Which fortification would you use?   Which fortification would you use? I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 19 2012, 07:28

Thats actually my plan, get a defense line and use comms, unless im fighting a army heavy on fliers or have just plain annoying fliers (like most of them are). Then deep strike half my army (I have had 3 wonderful games with my new setup with a farseer, council, and snipers), have a character drop a WWP in first turn or after deepstrike then call in the PAIN engine. Never used the pain engine but will in a day or 2 and my idea, to me, sounds like alot of fun.

As for the looks, I may try and make one to look like the shields guardians have in dawn of war 2, or purchase and convert the defense line into the shields of eldar guardians in DoW2 only to get the dementions right so people dont complain about not being able to see players when im on a hill or something.

Edit: What DE units can use out flank? I was rereading up on the webway in the codex and saw that they can use it also.

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