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 Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units

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Plastikente
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Plastikente

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Join date : 2012-11-15
Location : London

Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units Empty
PostSubject: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 00:02

Part 2 of my unit guide - please critique and I will include any points I feel are valid in the final draft. This is the special, illustrated edition Wink
[This is a long one - get a cup of tea before you start]
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CORE UNITS
HQ and troops make up the core of any army, encompassing your Warlord and your key scoring units,which are actually going to win battles for you. Given the style of play required by Dark Eldar, I also consider our dedicated transports to be essential core units.

HQ

Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units 8169642939_acae5db9f5_oARCHON

Strengths: The strength of the Archon lies not in his statline, but in his Wargear: with the right pieces of kit, he becomes a near-unstoppable cc monster.
Weaknesses: Low T makes him vulnerable to instant death. Does not stand up well to shooting.
Upgrades:
  • Venom Blade. A useful weapon for a bargain-basement Archon. Poison (2+) mitigates for his low S, and against TEQ it performs better than an Agoniser, for 1/4 of the cost.
  • Blast Pistol. Very short range means that this pistol is rarely worth the points.
  • Power Weapon. A useful cheap weapon to pair with a Soul Trap. Beware 2+ armour saves though.
  • Blaster. An Archon is built for assault – there is no good reason to swap his cc weapons for this.
  • Agoniser. Loses out to the Venom blade against TEQ, and for an extra 5 points you could take a Soul Trap/Power Weapon combo, which will soon out-do the Agoniser against everything else.
  • Electro-corrosive Whip. A useful weapon for challenges and hunting monstrous creatures. Particularly once your Shadowfield shorts it’s very important to reduce the impact of incoming attacks.
  • Huskblade. Instant death is useful, although there are many Eternal Warriors out there. The real strength of the huskblade is that it is the only piece of AP2 cc gear available to the Archon. Very expensive though.
  • Haywire Grenades. You pay 2.5 times as much as your troops do for these, and you can’t make the most of your high attacks. Leave them at home.
  • Ghostplate Armour. Not that useful – lots of stuff (including all power weapons) is AP4 or better, and the invulnerable save can’t be relied upon.
  • Combat Drugs. A good chance of picking up some extra killiness or a pain token for your warlord at a bargain price. See the mathhammer in the general tactica article for more details of how drugs can help you out.
  • Soul-trap. A beautiful piece of DE evil. Pick the right victims to start upping your strength and you will still be an absolute assassin in assault. Pair with a power weapon (cheap) or huskblade (expensive) and watch your enemies flee in terror.
  • Djin Blade. A risky way of getting a couple of extra attacks, as there is a 1 in 6 chance that they will hit you! Personally, I find that chance already plays too much of a role with my Archon (waiting for the Shadowfield to short), so I would leave this at home.
  • Clone Field. Can be good fun in a challenge, but won’t save you from shooting. I’d rather have the Shadowfield any day, even for the extra cost.
  • Phantasm Grenade Launcher (PGL). Essential if you’re going to pair your Archon with a unit which doesn’t have plasma grenades (Incubi especially).
  • Shadow Field. The must-have item for an Archon. Sure, it will blow eventually, but it is immensely frustrating for your enemy until it does, and will shield your Archon from all that S6+ instant death that is out there.
  • Webway Portal. Specialist kit that is only worth taking if your list as a whole is built round it. Personally, I would leave Haemis to carry this, as they are less valuable when left sitting in the open after deploying the WWP.

How to use:
Get the Archon into close combat, destroy the enemy, get him into another close combat. Repeat as required. An Archon should always be paired with a unit (until he charges, at least) to take some of the incoming fire. Some standard builds and pairing are:
  • Huskblade, Soul Trap, Shadowfield [135]. This build should decimate almost anything he comes across with high I, AP2 and an instant-death causing weapon. Try to find a lesser IC or MC to pick on first to boost your S before you take on the big foes.
  • Power Weapon, Soul Trap, Shadowfield [115]. A slightly cut-price version of the above. Watch out for 2+ armour saves, as they will really slow you down.
  • Venom Blade, Shadowfield [95].Just about the cheapest workable Archon build. Useful for lightly-armoured hordes and high toughness enemies which your other troops may have trouble wounding.
  • With Incubi.A popular combo, provided that you invest in a PGL, which bumps up your price a bit more. Doing this lets the Incubi overcome their biggest weakness – charging units in cover. Targets must be picked carefully however, as power weapons make short work of Incubi.
  • With Wyches/Bloodbrides.A good match-up, as the extra killing power of the Archon complements the Wyches’ survivability nicely.
  • With Warriors/Trueborn. Not such an obvious match, as they tend to be a liability in an assault. Can be a useful ablative protection to soak up shooting attacks though, and to soften up an enemy with splinter fire before the Archon charges – just remember to separate him from the unit in the movement phase first!
  • With Grotesques. Grotesques bring the great advantage of raising the majority toughness of the unit, giving you some genuine resistance to shooting attacks. They also start the game with a Pain Token, which the Archon can keep when he leaves. The downside is losing Fleet; this can be overcome by detaching the Archon to assault, but leaves the Grots at the mercy of their pitifully low leadership and the Berserk Rampage special rule. Grots are also bulky, limiting the size of unit you can fit in a transport, however, a large unit, led by an Archon and arriving from the Webway is going to seriously threaten anyone with striking distance of them.


COURT OF THE ARCHON
The Court is not a retinue – the associated Archon does not have to join the unit.
Strengths: Er... some fairly good cc models
Weaknesses: Not an outstanding unit in this Codex. Everything this unit does can be done just as well or better by something else in the army list. You have to take at least one of everything. Not everything in the unit has Power from Pain.
Components:
  • Medusae. Basically a Kabalite Warrior with a variable S, variable AP flamer. A bit too random for my liking, but if the dice favour you it could be awesome.
  • Ur-Ghul. Lots of attacks at an above average (for DE) S.
  • Lhamaean. A Kabalite Warrior with better poison. Also gives the Archon better poison, but this will only affect his Splinter Pistol, so not that impressive.
  • Sslyth. Almost the same statline as a Grotesque (minus 1W), but a Sslyth can shoot. Costs the same as a Grot, but doesn’t get Power from Pain. On the other hand, there is no risk of berserk rampage.

How to use: Just another close combat unit, with a bit of medium-close range shooting as it approaches. Taking 3 Sslyth and 1 of everything else would give you a majority toughness of 5 until something dies, which would be fun and unexpected for a DE army.


Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units 8169622785_08439f2135_oSUCCUBUS

Strengths: Another close-combat monster. Fewer wargear options means that a Succubus should come in cheaper than an Archon. The dodge save adds to survivability in close combat without requiring a large points investment or risking shorting out.
Weaknesses: Vulnerable to instant death and to shooting. No access to AP2 weapons (without sacrificing initiative advantage for a Power Axe).
Upgrades:

  • Venom Blade. See comments for the Archon, above.
  • Blast Pistol. Again, see the Archon.
  • Power Weapon. Without the option of a soul trap to buff this weapon you will get better results spending the extra 5 points for an Agoniser or ECW.
  • Agoniser. A solid option for taking out MCs or ICs if their save is worse than 2+. Wounding on a fixed value can really screw with those units which are relying on their T for protection.
  • Electro-corrosive Whip. The one to take to make sure you survive those high strength enemies. Can be a bit of a risk though for T5 and above, as you need to get that unsaved wound on your opponent before he lands a blow.
  • Hydra Gauntlets, Shardnet and Impaler, Razorflails. These are best left to your rank and file Wyches, who will get (almost) as good an effect out of them and leave your Succubus to play with the toys that they can’t access.
  • Haywire Grenades. See the Archon.

How to use: Similar to the Archon, although without access to an AP2 weapon so avoid those TEQs if they have the strength to instant-kill. If not, the dodge save makes her very survivable and great to tarpit. Succubus builds are very simple – choose one weapon and you’re done. Doing this will make any Succubus cheaper than an Archon with the mandatory Shadowfield, giving you almost as much clout for much less cost – ideal for smaller games. Standard unit pairings are:
  • With Incubi.The Succubus can’t have a PGL, so she can’t overcome the Incubi’s biggest weakness for them. Their AP2 weapons can cover a hole in her abilities, but it’s better to just keep her clear of 2+Sv altogether.
  • With Warriors/Trueborn. Not generally a good choice – do little other than soak up incoming fire to make sure your Succubus gets into a fight.
  • With Wracks. Their poisoned CCWs makes them a good pair for hunting MCs, the higher majority toughness will take a bit of the bite out of incoming attacks, and they start with a pain token. However the lack of Fleet or grenades makes it that much more difficult to land a decent charge in the first place.
  • With Grotesques. All the same comments for the Archon/Grots pairing also apply. This unit can be utter filth, if fielded in large numbers, which pushes you towards the use of a WWP. Personally, I find the synergy presented by Wyches or Bloodbrides still makes them the stand-out choice to escort a Succubus:
  • With Wyches/Bloodbrides. The ideal pairing. Everyone benefits from the same combat drugs, so you shouldn’t have trouble remembering them. An ECW and Agoniser (on the Succubus and Hekatrix/Syren) make a great combo for taking out monstrous creatures. This gets even better with a few Shardnet/Impaler combos in the squad.


Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units 8169650298_43ed10b14e_oHAEMONCULUS

Up to 3 Haemonculi can be taken as a single HQ choice, up to 1 of which may be an ancient.
Strengths: Slightly tougher than the other DE characters, and brings a pain token with him. Access to arcane wargear. Makes Wracks a Troops choice.
Weaknesses: Poor save, weak in close combat due to low I, A. (Non-ancient) Haemis only have 2 wounds.
Upgrades:
Haemis have access to an absolutely massive range of wargear, allowing them to be tailored to achieve what you want.
  • Venom Blade. Cheap and cheerful. A solid choice.
  • Stinger Pistol. Also cheap, but short range. Shooting Haemis have better options.
  • Power Weapon. Might be useful if Haemis were a bit more fighty.
  • Mindphase Gauntlet. This weapon has massive potential – even greater than the ECW. Problem is, this is undermined by the low (for a DE) initiative of the bearer. Even an Ancient won’t be hitting before a Smurf Captain, so the benefit of this weapon is lost. Against Guard, Necrons, Orks, etc this could be awesome.
  • Flesh Gauntlet. A poisoned weapon which causes instant death. Quite expensive for what it does.
  • Agoniser. Same comments apply as for Succubus.
  • Electrocorrosive Whip. Suffers from the same problems as the mindphase gauntlet, costs twice as much and only halves the enemy’s strength instead of stopping him from attacking outright. It is a power weapon, but I would just take the Mindphase Gauntlet instead.
  • Huskblade. A potent but expensive weapon. If you’re going to buy one, stick it on an Archon, who has the WS, I and A to make it worth it.
  • Animus Vitae. This is a CCW, so you can’t claim its effects at the same time as another weapon (one which will actually help you kill something). Probably not worthwhile.
  • Casket of Flensing. A one-shot gambler’s weapon. If the dice favour you it could be awesome. They never seem to favour me with this particular toy.
  • Liquifier Gun. One of the best options available for a Haemi. Useful for softening up enemies in cover and for putting off chargers (due to overwatch rules). It’s great to see the look on an MEQ player’s face when you roll that 1, 2 or 3 for the AP.
  • Soul Trap. Like a Huskblade, this is better given to someone who has the stats to really make use of it.
  • Vexator Mask. Can be fun, but even Guardsmen are more likely to pass than fail, so it can’t be relied upon to stop incoming attacks, especially from truly dangerous foes. Backing up with a vehicle with Torment Grenade Launcher will improve your success rate.
  • Scissorhand. Mathhammer says that this slightly beats a Venom Blade for a Haemi, but gives equal wound output for an Ancient. It costs 3x as much. I know which I would choose.
  • Archangel of Pain. One-shot I/WS crippler. Variable range and relies on the enemy failing a Ld test. Not reliable enough for my taste, especially as we will usually have the I advantage and often have the WS advantage without it.
  • Hexrifle. A useful option for a shooting Haemi. Because it is a Sniper weapon it is pinning and rending, and precision shots allow you to pick out individuals from units.
  • Shattershard. A true gem, this one-shot weapon works against almost everything. Find some MEQ Elites to unleash on and they will fail on a 5+, giving you a good chance of making your points back.
  • Crucible of Malediction. A premium weapon against the right opponent. Not reliable for hunting a single Psyker, but if the enemy has brought lots (Seer Councils? Grey Knights?) then they are bound to fail at least a few of the saves and curse you for it. Once again, pair with Torment Grenade Launchers for maximum effect.
  • Orb of Despair. A one-shot small blast – this can quite easily scatter enough to have no effect. Additionally, there are very few models it can cause instant death to, although that is at AP1. I would leave it at home in favour of a Shattershard or Dark Gate.
  • Dark Gate. A one-shot large blast – a longer range than the Orb of Despair, lower risk of missing everything and may cause instant death, although AP is -.
  • Webway Portal. Haemis make ideal WWP caddies. They are more expendable than an Archon so can be dropped off with the portal and then left to wander towards the enemy if they survive the next turn. Alternatively, they can join one of your newly arrived reserves, bringing a pain token with them.

How to use: You need to start by deciding what the purpose of your Haemi is, then give him the Wargear and supporting unit to go with it.

  • WWP Caddies. Give your Haemi a WWP and stick him on a transport. He wants to deploy the portal as close to the enemy as possible, and on the first turn. Venoms make the ideal transport to do this as they are smaller (=easier to hide) than a Raider and come with a free Flicker Field. Wracks make a perfect escort for the Haemi as they match his toughness and can be taken in small enough units to fit with him in the Venom. As this Haemi is rushing towards the enemy anyway, he is an ideal candidate to carry a Shattershard, Crucible of Malediction or other exciting close-range toy.
  • Pain Token Caddies. Run the Haemi with Incubi or Wyches/Bloodbrides. When they disembark ready to assault, separate him from his escort, giving them his pain token – this way he doesn’t stop them from getting Fleet. After they have made their charge he can always try to catch up with them – a Venom Blade is a cheap way to give him some bite if he does make it. Again, as this Haemi is going to be in the midst of the enemy he is a great carrier for a short-range, single-shot toy.
  • Shooting Specialisation. Take a Hexrifle or Liquifier Gun and join up with a group of Kabalite Warriors/Trueborn. They can then either sit in good cover backed up by FnP, or fly around the battlefield in a transport to cause some close-range damage.
  • Close Combat Specialisation. Probably best left to the experts, but if you just can’t resist the temptation, take an Ancient to do it. If he is facing a low I army, I would take the Mindphase Gauntlet, otherwise I would probably just grab a Venom Blade.



DEDICATED TRANSPORTS

Transports are a key option in most DE unit builds, so I will deal with them here before moving on to the units themselves.

Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units 8169650218_8ef41311dd_oRAIDER

Strengths: Largest (non-Forgeworld) transport available to DE. Single turn reach of 30” if moving Flat Out. Open-topped allows passengers to assault on the turn they disembark. Mounts a heavy weapon.
Weaknesses: Paper-thin armour.
Upgrades:

  • Dark Lance/Disintegrator Cannon. Not actually an upgrade, but a compulsory option. The vast majority of players choose Dark Lances to boost the anti-vehicle capabilities of their army. A Disintegrator could be a viable option if AV was well-covered by the rest of your list, or you knew you would be facing a lot of 2+Sv models (Deathwing army?).
  • Shock Prow. I see no use for this. If you tank shock an enemy squad they are probably just going to assault you in their next turn. And Raiders are too flimsy to consider ramming an opponent even with this upgrade.
  • Torment Grenade Launchers. The short range of this item puts you at risk of being assaulted if you try to use it, but the Ld penalty it provides for your enemy could be pivotal for certain Arcane Wargear available to Haemis. Worth giving a try in this sort of setup.
  • Enhanced Aethersails. These can be used in addition to going Flat Out (6th Ed FAQ v1.1), giving an average of 7” extra movement. I find my Raiders fast enough anyway, but this could be useful for getting those non-Fleet passengers a little closer to the enemy.
  • Retrofire Jets. I don’t see much value to this. The speed of a Raider means that you can get to almost anywhere on the board by Turn 2 anyway, without the risk of your Reserves roll missing or getting a Deep Strike mishap. Other players may find a use for it.
  • Grisly Trophies. I have never made use of these, but if you have the spare points there are a useful way to make sure your Wyches stand and fight if you have a bad turn in combat.
  • Chain Snares. I have a fondness from these left over from their rules in the last Codex. However, they can only be used in the movement phase, and therefore not during the Flat Out section of your movement in the shooting phase. It is very difficult to get an enemy unit into a position where you can use this on them without them assaulting you first. I’d leave them at home.
  • Venom Blades. As these don’t take effect until the enemy rolls to hit, they’re not going to stop anyone from assaulting your vehicles – they just may take down someone as they go. Not worth it IMHO.
  • Splinter Racks. A cheap way to buff your Warrior’s shooting, increasing their hit possibility from 0.67 per shot to 0.89. A useful buy for Warrior Gunboats, but be aware that it won’t work on Shardcarbines or Splinter Cannons.
  • Night Shields. These often won’t put you out of range of enemy anti-tank weapons (not if you want to be in range to fire yourself), but can be really helpful to protect your Raider in close by reducing the range at which the enemy can Rapid Fire at it or claim the Melta bonus. Definitely worth the points if you’re planning to drop assault troops off and hang around.
  • Flicker Field. Due to the Jink rule, Raiders get an equivalent save for free, provided that they have moved. However, the jink cover save won’t protect them in assault, or if the enemy gets the first turn and shoots before you can move. It can therefore be a worthwhile investment for your VIP Raider.

How to use: Mobility is a key advantage of the Dark Eldar and Raiders play a vital part in getting your troops to the right place at the right time. As a Dedicated Transport, they have to be taken in support of a unit, and should be kitted out to benefit that unit. With low armour and open-topped, your Raiders are very unlikely to survive a game, so avoid over-spending on them. Personally, I never give them more than one upgrade, in an attempt to keep them expendable.


Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units 8169650144_cfeb8f8087_oVENOM

Strengths: Single turn reach of 30” if moving Flat Out. Open-topped allows passengers to assault on the turn they disembark. Potential for impressive anti-personnel firepower. Smaller than a Raider, making it easier to hide behind scenery.
Weaknesses: Even flimsier than a Raider, although it comes with a free Flicker Field. Small transport capacity. Smaller range of available wargear.
Upgrades:

  • Second Splinter Cannon. For a small cost, this almost doubles the Venom’s shooting output, making it a fearsome little anti-infantry Gunboat. I take this upgrade every time.
  • Retrofire Jets, Chain-Snares, Grisly Trophies, Envenomed Blades, Night Shields. Exactly the same comments apply as for a Raider.

How to use: See comments on the Raider. As the Venom has such a low transport capacity it will often be used to carry elite units or ICs. I generally go flat out in my first turn to get the passengers to where they need to be, and then slow down to pump out as much fire as possible before the Venom is taken out.


TROOPS

Troops are the backbone of an army, and usually the only scoring units.

Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units 8169622973_53e7b9bc59_oKABALITE WARRIORS

Strengths: Above average WS, BS and Ld. High I. Poisoned shooting weapons as standard and can take special/heavy weapons for more anti-infantry or anti-armour.
Weaknesses: Fragile – average toughness and poor armour. Rapid fire weapons cannot shoot and assault, but Warriors are not good assault troops in any case.
Upgrades:

  • Sybarite. For about the cost of another warrior, you can upgrade one to a Sybarite. His Ld is higher, making the squad more likely to stick around. He is also a character, giving the option for precision shots, and the ability to make/accept challenges in cc. For these reasons, a Sybarite is well worth it, but if points are tight you can get away without one.
  • Sybarite Wargear. Ghostplate armour doesn’t make a great difference, and points are probably better spent elsewhere. Blast pistols are very expensive and the range is so short that they aren’t that useful. Warriors will never survive an assault from decent assault troops, so I usually leave my Sybarite with his Splinter Rifle. If you want to make a unit to sit in cover and maybe survive an assault (if the dice are with you), a PGL and Venom Blade may work but it’s a large points investment for an uncertain outcome.
  • Blaster. A really mean gun for giving a squad a bit more bite. Has a reasonable range at high strength and low AP. Gives your squad a chance against vehicles and heavy infantry (MEQ/TEQ). As the restriction is one per squad, you can use it in squads which are too small for a heavy weapon.
  • Shredder. Some high S anti-infantry to buff the squad, although it is AP-. The short range ruins this weapon for me, and you have to choose between this and a Blaster.
  • Dark Lance. A long range Blaster but it is a heavy weapon, reducing your mobility. You need a minimum squad size of 10 to take one. This gives the squad some long ranged AT capability, but if you choose to do this you’ll sacrifice all your splinter fire for the turn. Can be useful to give a static squad something to do until the infantry get into range.
  • Splinter Cannon. A great supplement for a dedicated anti-infantry squad. Can be fired as a heavy or assault weapon, so it doesn’t need to reduce your mobility.
  • Venom. Only a min-sized squad can take a Venom. This can make for a useful harassing unit which is also scoring (once disembarked). Both the vehicle and the passengers are very fragile, though.
  • Raider. A good option for a gunboat. Buy a splinter rack and fill up with Warriors. Due to the transport capacity, if you want an IC to ride too, the Warrior squad has to be too small to take a heavy weapon, which is a disadvantage. Obvious point – don’t stick a Dark Lance in a Raider, as you’ll only get to snap fire if you want to take advantage of the mobility.

How to use: Warriors could deploy from a WWP and as they are a shooting unit they won’t be so disadvantaged by the fact they can’t charge. You need to make sure that they can deploy into cover though, and avoid leaving them open to a charge in the enemy’s turn.
A few possible non-WWP builds are:

  • Venom Warriors. 5 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Venom, extra Splinter Cannon [125]. Small harassing unit, as discussed. Sybarite left out for cheapness, but Blaster gives the option for some opportunistic tank-hunting.
  • Raider Warriors. 10 Kabalite Warriors, Blaster, Splinter Cannon, Raider, Splinter Racks [195]. Anti-infantry gunboat. The Sybarite gives them more staying power when they start to take casualties and the Blaster again gives an anti-tank option.
  • Static Warriors. 20 Kabalite Warriors, 2 Dark Lances, Sybarite with Venom Blade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher [265]. A big unit designed to sit in decent cover holding an objective. Dark Lances let the squad deal with vehicles until the infantry get in range. Supplement with a Haemonculus to make this unit even tougher to shift.

Warriors are the only DE unit which is suited at all to sitting on an objective, due to their ranged weaponry. Even in decent cover they are not that survivable, and going to ground may be your only option to make it to the end of a turn. Weigh the risks and remember that Victory Points are how you win games, no necessarily kills.


Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units 8169622701_ea0e14437f_oWYCHES

Strengths: Above average WS, BS and Ld. Very high I means they will almost always strike first, even against elite assault troops from other armies. Combat drugs help them to achieve more than their statline would have you expect (see the mathhammer section of the general tactica). Dodge save makes them very durable in close combat. Come with assault grenades and can be upgraded with haywire grenades to take out vehicles. An outstanding tarpit unit.
Weaknesses: Very fragile – average toughness and even poorer armour than Warriors. Will be shot to pieces if left in the open (and watch out for overwatch!). Wyches have no significant ranged firepower.
Upgrades:
Each of the 3 Wych weapons costs the same as an extra Wych, so the question is always, “why not just have a larger squad?” More bodies means that you can take more damage, adding to your overall survivability. If you’re already maxed on size though, weapons can still give you a bit more bite.

  • Razorflails. Give a slightly better damage expectation than just doubling your number of attacks (by adding another Wych), but don’t stand out so much if you roll Painbringer for your combat drug.
  • Hydra Gauntlets. A standard Wych gets 2 attacks (when not on the charge or buffed by combat drugs). One with Hydra Gauntlets gets an average of 4.5 attacks, giving a slightly better return than just buying an extra Wych for the same cost. They do bring an extra element of randomness though...
  • Shardnet and Impaler. No effect against enemies with 1 attack, and can’t be used to assist characters in challenges, but these are absolutely great for hindering monstrous creatures, or for general tarpitting, especially if used in multiples. The one weapon whose effect can’t be simulated by just adding more Wyches.

Apart from the Wych weapons, there are a couple of other options to upgrade your squad:
  • Haywire Grenades. Awesome for vehicle hunting. Just watch out that you don’t get left in the open and shot up after you’ve taken out your target.
  • Hekatrix. Higher Ld and all the bonuses of being a character – definitely worth the investment for an assault. Also brings some useful weapons to the mix. Don’t bother with a Blast Pistol. For 3+ or worse save, Agoniser gives best results above T4, power sword below. For 2+ save, Venom Blade is the way forward. I like to stick to VB in any case, for a cheap and cheerful option. Phantasm Grenade Launcher is useful for the stealth effect defensive grenades give you at close range; take one if you have points to spare.

How to use: Wyches were born for close combat! Get them there and watch them enjoy it. Their dodge save makes them very survivable in an assault, allowing them to roll over weaker units (GEQ) or be a massive tarpit for tougher units (MEQ), who they will have more trouble finishing off. A pain token goes a long way to improving Wych survivability, and it is often worth pairing them with a Haemi at the off to get this. Wyches will also often play escort to an IC. Wyches cannot survive on foot (even with a pain token), so you are bound to want to give them some sort of shortcut to close combat:

  • Don’t take a Venom. A min-sized Wych squad has no redundancy. A bit of lucky overwatch or an exploding vehicle can easily reduce the squad below an effective size. I wouldn’t bother trying to mount Wyches in a Venom.
  • Raider. 6 Wyches, Shardnet and Impaler, Hekatrix with Venom Blade, Raider, Night Shields [155] + Independent Character. Start the Wyches with a Haemi to get the pain token (and then leave him in the transport to do drive-bys with a Liquifier Gun Very Happy), or use them as an escort for your Archon/Succubus. 1 Turn of flat out in the Raider should get you in striking distance, and hopefully your jink save and Night Shields will save you from a painful explosion for that 1 turn at close range. This size of squad is usually sufficient to achieve the 2-turn kill, but you might consider increasing the squad size if this doesn’t work for you.
  • Webway Portal. 15 Wyches, Hekatrix with Venom Blade, Phantasm Grenade Launcher [175] + Haemonculus. Squad size is maxed to add some survivability, which is also the reason for the Haemi. Deploy from the portal into cover and try to get an assault on the next turn. PGL will protect a bit from any really close-ranged fire, and if the enemy manage to get the jump on you by assaulting first.

Some other ways to customise your squad for a certain role are:

  • Monstrous Creature Hunters. Max out on Shardnet/Impalers and take a Hekatrix with Agoniser.
  • Vehicle Hunters. Haywire Grenades. If possible, perhaps risk a disordered charge against an enemy squad and adjacent vehicle – this keeps you from being stuck out in the open whether or not you take the vehicle out.

Wyches are an offensive unit – do not use them to try to hold objectives, only to swoop in the end game. Hiding in cover and sniping with splinter pistols is not an effective way to use these troops.

-Plastikente

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 00:53

Great write up.
Some excellent advice and very detailed.
I would only argue on the value of the Sybarite and not giving Wychs a Venom.
You mention them as great Tank hunters but disregard the value of 1 or 2 5man HWG units in Venoms. Sure you may lose a few should the Venom explode but even down a member or 2 the unit can still wreck a mid level vehicle every turn if everyone hits.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 04:30

Some things I really question from the Archon section:
1) Reading the Electro Whip entree you almost seem to give it a positive review (or at least don't mention its negative aspects), I'm a bit surprised by this. Generally speaking the Electro Whip is never taken and commonly shunned. Did you find the whip useful or was this a mistake? You're harder on the whip in the Succubus section for example (though still sound somewhat positive which was again surprising).

2) Likewise you're very positive regarding the Soul-Trap but again don't mention its failings. While I surely am a fan of the item it's not a consistent piece of equipment by any stretch (it can often be useless vs some armies, IG for example, or close to useless if the enemy has few ICs that are hard to get to) and often requires you to work to make it worthwhile (taking Combat Drugs/the right retinue to get that first kill, ect...).

3) Speaking of which I'm surprised there is no mention of Combat Drugs in the sample builds. I can understand skipping it on the cheap VB+SF build but, especially on the Soul-Trap builds, you need all the help you can get getting that first character kill to activate the trap, Combat Drugs are one of the best ways to get that help. Not required of course but still, I'm a bit curious.

4) Finally the part I just outright disagree with. Haywire Grenades are IMO very worthwhile on the Archon. First of all, how does his many attacks matter vs vehicles? He's S3, he won't even scratch them most of the time (you can hardly assume he's always going to be S6 from Soul-Trap). Even if you get him +1 strength (Furious Charge, Power Lance, Drugs, whatever) vs AV10 he's still probably just as well off using the Haywire when you consider he can throw it on the way in as well (which there is no reason he shouldn't do) and of course vs anything higher Haywire is just plain better. Honestly at only 5 points (which makes your comment on it being 2.5x more then troops pay for sounds more serious then it is, 2v5 is hardly a big deal as a one off on an IC even if it is 2.5 times more) it's not a bad buy at all to give your Archon the option of going after a vehicle if he really needs to (this also goes for the Succubus).

I also second Orthien's comment regarding disagreeing with not giving Wyches Venoms. The 5 wych grenade squad in a venom is well worth mentioning at the very least. Of course these are just my opinions.
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 07:03

It's late and I probably shouldn't have even started into this, so I'm going to stop after just reading the Archon and the Court - I'll get to the rest later.

I think you might do well to do a bit of a break-down on the specifics of the various power weapons and how they apply to the HQs. There are a number of options there, but you functionally only address the sword.

I think you are grossly dismissive of the Blaster. Basically it's because you're looking at the Archon as an assault option...the thing is he's also one of our best shooting units. Check the BS, and also do the math for a cheaper way to get a Blaster on the field...yeah. Shooting (and AP2 shooting) is, in my opinion, likely to become a major part of the game in 6th, and the Blaster Archon has a very useful and potent role to play in it as a cheap HQ for a shooting army - just toss him in a Trueborn boat and you're doing great.

I'll grunt in agreement about the above comments about the Whip.

I think you could discuss a bit more about the assassin qualities of the Archon, with his wargear, the SOul Trap, and Challenges, he really has become much more viable as an assault tool, an assassin, and a straight up bully to enemy squads.

To a certain extent I think the PGL is obligatory for Archons paired with Wyches in an assault role.

I actually agree with you on the HWGs - simply because he should probably be paired with other anti-mech things anyway if he's assaulting mech, and they ought to be able to handle it by themselves, and he can always use a plasma grenade to help if he must. The Grenades are okay, but hardly a 'should have' piece of wargear. They're an indulgence buy or for a very specific build.

I'll get to the rest later.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 07:34

I guess I feel the same way about the Blaster as you do about Haywire, Thor. The Blaster is "okay" but hardly a should have piece of wargear. It's an indulgence and for a very specific build. The thing is though, the Haywire is only 5 points (incredibly easy to fit in with spare points) and doesn't limit the Archon in any way. There is no reason not to have it on your archon for when you just happen to need it (and frankly it's not that hard to think of situations where having anti-tank is helpful). The Blaster is 15 points (a much bigger investment) and requires the Archon take the Djinn Blade if he wants the +1 attack for two ccws (since it takes the place of one) otherwise you've made your Archon worse in melee then he was to begin with, firmly cementing it as a nitch build item and not a generally applicable item in my eyes.

As for "doing the math" for a cheaper way to get a blaster on the field... 75points for 1 blaster shot (with great BS but still...) is a poor deal. Warriors or Trueborn are much cheaper per blaster and even cheaper if you include the cost of the other non-blaster models in the squad. So I'm not sure what you mean here...
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 08:08

The Blaster wouldn't take a Djinn Blade - if you're buying a Blaster you're building a shooting Archon - you're not assaulting anything.

Cost for Blasters in the army

Trueborn - 27 points per Blaster
Warriors - 60 points per Blaster
Reavers - 78 points (Heat Lance)
Talos - 110 points (Heat Lance)
Archon - 75 points

That looks functionally competitive - especially when he's the only HQ that can take a anti-mech shooting weapon and when I build a shooting army I tend to max out my Elites and Troop slots quickly and usually still want more Blasters. Also, is BS 7 worth a few more points? I would say yes. It's functionally almost an auto-hit Blaster.

The HWG thing is very situational to my mind. Yeah, it's only 5 points - but I have other things I'd usually rather spend those points on. I don't buy an Archon to assault mech. If I want his squad to be able to handle mech (like, if he's with Wyches, not Incubi) then my squad of Wyches can handle the mech fine by themselves.

But, if I'm taking an archon with assault goals, the last thing I want to do is have him wasting time swinging at mech - I want him to be assaulting enemy infantry and killing it dead. Blasters, Lances, and squads of Wyches, and Beastmasters are what I'm sending to assault mech - my Archon has better targets. Even if I give him HWGs he still has better targets.

To my mind that's the difference. If I hand him a Blaster he'll be shooting.
If I make him assault I'll be assaulting.
If I hand him HWGs it's an 'in case of' situation. It's not what he's going to be doing, basically I'm just trying to protect him in case a Walker assaults his unit or something...on the presumption the unit will also lack HWGs (so...basically when he's teamed up with Incubi...and *maybe* Grots...or definitely Wracks if you pair him there). That's a perfectly decent use for them - but make it clear that's what it is, it's not a core piece of wargear, it's a last minute 'derp, I have 5 points left, what to do' piece of wargear.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 08:20

Well I won't clutter Plastikente's thread anymore with this argument. I disagree with you on both points but it is just my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 10:08

A great start! Very Happy

Prepare youself for a mountain of feedback! I'll go through this a section at a time:

Archon

Blaster: I strongly disagree with this, it was a great choice last edition and it's even better this edition. It hits on a 2+ with a 5+ re-roll, that a blaster with a 89% chance of hitting on a model that has a 2++. Now in 6th edition fleet does not affect shooting you will always get a blaster shot before the charge, against your standard marine that's equivalent to having:

-4 extra venomblade attacks. So the combat would have to last more than four rounds for the blaster to be a disadvantage in close combat.
-3.33 extra power sword attacks/huskblade/electrowhip attacks.
-2.22 extra agoniser/power spear/power axe attacks.

Cover obviously reduces these values. That being said I hope it helps demonstrate what a lethal option the blaster is.

The blaster also has a nice effective range of 18", can cause instant death, ignore FNP, is AP2, does not affect combat resolution (meaning you are more likely to stay in combat for two turns) and finally the icing on the cake is precision shot (with a 19.4% chance of occurring thanks to the BS7 re-roll).

I find the biggest perk of the blaster is it gives you options and flexibility. Sometimes you don't want to charge forward with you archon, or he gets stranded on the other side of the table, meaning he would either have to chance running across the board on his own or risk the unit he is with in open ground (possibly a troop choice). The blaster lets him contribute from a distance. The other advantage is it gives the option to take out a transport with shooting and charge the survivors in the assault phase (haywire grenades etc don't offer this option).

Archon, Blaster, Venom Blade, Shadow field - 110 points being my preferred set up

Electrocorosive whip: It does have it's uses, but I think it stems back to power swords no being great on archons in the first place, so why pay more? Interestingly it means you only need to worry about causing a single wound rather than killing your opponent, however then why not pay more for a huskblade (most MCs don't have Eternal warrior)? Once you look at the whip alongside the other available options that's when it loses its value.

Haywire Grenades: Completely agree, they just make an expensive model more expensive. However may be worth considering in a dreadnought heavy environment.

With Grotesques: The majority toughness also works in assault as long as the archon isn't in a challenge!

Court

Sslyth: Best advantage they have over grotesques is that they have fleet. The main problem with the court is you have to include one of each choice. However if you get 3 Sslyth and one of each other choice and mount them in a raider, you can just kill off the T3 models when the vehicle explodes meaning the survivors with be majority toughness 5 against the enemies shooting, same applies to over watch use it to kill off 1-2 of the T3 models.

Succubus

Grotesques: The nice thing with this is she gives them I8 for sweeping advance, which is huge for both chasing and getting away (it also helps them against "blind" weapons if and when they become more popular).

Wyches/Bloodbrides: The nice thing with this combo is if you roll a 6 on the drug table you get two pain tokens one from the succubus and one from the squad, meaning the unit starts with furious charge.

Haemies

Power Weapon: Again one of the best options for haemies it's 5pts cheaper than on any other character and the axe is a fantastic choice, as they have bad I to start with (by DE standards) and coven units lack power weapons. Add the Fact that they will be striking at S5 on the charge makes them the go to melee weapon for haemies. Personally a far better choice than the venom blade in this case as coven units do not lack poison.

Ancient Upgrade: You missed this.

The ancient is a good choice as he is leadership 9 (people often overlook the fact that normal haemies are only LD8).This ties in with well with the command table as it means the inspiring presence roll actually does something (if he is your warlord). Then there are the other benefits, the increased WS and A increase the haemies damage output in close combat by almost double. Initiative 5 for helping the coven unit with sweeping advance (even if you give him an axe). Finally the extra wound doesn't hurt.

Close combat: Haemies can be a great way to add a S4-5 AP2 power weapon to coven units.

Raider

Shock Prow: a great option last edition when tank shock was so powerful. However a lot weaker the edition with the changes to tank shock. That being said sometimes tank shock is the only way to clear units out of your deployment zone to prevent line breaker, or get them off an objective. Tank shock still has it's uses this edition but whether the prow is worth it's cost is debatable.

Enhanced Aethersails: Or if coming in from reserve (And during hammer and anvil deployment).

Retrofire Jets: Might as well take aethersails for less risk and more precision coming in from reserve.

Uses: maybe mention other uses such as blocking, screening, generating area terrain on objective that your opponent has placed in the open for our fragile troops to go to ground in for 3+ cover saves?

Venoms

Uses: They come with flicker fields so use them to give your raiders cover on the first turn (if you are going second).

Warriors

Uses: I disagree with warriors being the only unit good at sitting on objectives, most DE units on objectives in area terrain will be going to ground for 3+ cover saves this is where wracks really shine as they are not sacrificing any shooting in order to go to ground (and can still over-watch with their liquifier if charged) combine this with being T4 and FNP and it makes them an absolutely fantastic objective sitting unit. Even more so now that you can only kill what you can see, this means a smaller tougher units is better at sitting objective, 5 wracks have similar survivability to 10 warriors going to ground and shooting output of 10 warriors going to ground is 1.25 wounds before saves (5 wracks is also half the price).

Wyches

Wych weapons: Something worth considering, is that a wych weapon is about as effective as an extra wych, this makes it appear that an extra wych is the no brainer choice, however that extra wych means an extra S4 hit when their raider explodes (and a 2/3 chance of dying) the wych weapon does not incur an extra S4 hit, so taking this into account the way explosions work wych weapons are in fact a good choice!

EDIT: After much discussion and analysis with Shadows Revenge in chat, although we came across a situation where 7 wyches with a razor flail was more damage/point efficient in assault against MEQ/QEQ than 9 wyches (after both their raiders suffering an explosion). Despite this the advantages of an extra wych instead of a wych weapon are too many (extra haywire grenade, extra wound if your raider doesn't explode or gets wrecked, extra 0.45 wound if it explodes, extra splinter shot, more models for working out leadership tests, etc). So I would agree with Shadow's assessment even after taking into consideration explosions, an extra wych is always a better choice. Smile

Impaler: wounds are removed from the front and it doesn't affect models in challenges making it a subpar choice this edition.

Phantasm Grenade Launcher: If you are taking a hekatrix, you should get a PGL it's as simple as that, their are just too many advantages, and helps mitigate a lot of their vulnerabilities against shooting (and should take priority over any other upgrades).

Squad recommendations: haywire whiches in a venom are a sound choice. Drop the impaler, its a bad option this edition. You missed out on the signature DE 7-8 wych build in raiders (6 is just not a good number Smile).

Extra thoughts

Finally I would consider adding wracks to this section as they are almost always fielded as troops.

Great work thanks for putting all this time and effort into making this guide! Very Happy

Other members posts

@Thor665 wrote:
To a certain extent I think the PGL is obligatory for Archons paired with Wyches in an assault role.
Why pay 25pts when whyches/bloodbrides get them for 10pts? For 25pts you can get a squad leader, PGL and VBlade. Which has a lot more utility.

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Plastikente
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 12:51

I thought I'd check this thread at lunchtime to see how it was going, and found there is a lot of feedback to comment on. I'm quite busy tonight, but rest assured that I will get round to it asap. Please keep the thoughts coming in.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 13:09

@Plastikente wrote:
I thought I'd check this thread at lunchtime to see how it was going, and found there is a lot of feedback to comment on. I'm quite busy tonight, but rest assured that I will get round to it asap. Please keep the thoughts coming in.

Don't worry there will be at least three more pages of posts to go through by the time you get back! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 16:13

Succubus

Considering that the Succubus is more likely to be paired with Wyches, the HWGs are more useful for her in a general sense. Probably worth discussing in the are you pair them with units.

Haem

Considering how much you mathhammer some stuff, I'm amazed you don't touch the sad state of affairs that is the Hexrifle.
Close combat Haems are best left to the experts? Lulz.

Raider

Our ramming capability is actually pretty decent - yeah, the Raider likely gets penned...but also whatever it rammed likely gets the same.
Really good point about the Chain Snare nerf.

Warriors

There was actually good synergy for Sybarites with Blast Pistols in a Duke Deep Strike army last edition. Though that army itself has been nerfed the core concept still holds if you are deep striking a unit in.
Why would a static warrior squad want a PGL? Really just for the 8" stealth? I do not grok.
It has been mentioned before, so I'll just grunt in agreement about Wyches working fine in Venoms.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 16:56

Guess Ill throw my 2 cents in here as well...

Archon: Ill agree with everyone on how quickly you pass up a blaster. its a cheap alternative for an HQ (archon, blaster) for a shooty army, and even if you give him the basic wargear (archon, blaster, shadowfield, venomblade or agoniser) he basically can hold up units on his own, while in the beginning still dishing out shooting death. Its a great option for 100% shooty DE armies.

Secondly I like how you bash the Agoniser, yet promote the elecrocution whip. The agoniser is point per point our best weapon against your standard infantry (MEQ variants), making it ideal for tournament lists. The whip though has no purpose as being only S3 hurts its damage output potential.

Finally while I understand the strengths of both a haywire grenade and blaster for an archon, one thing none of you brought up is the Archon's ability to throw a haywire. This potentially gives him 2 chances to strip hull points for a vehicle. My food for thought to all of you. For a combat oriented archon, is it better to pay 5 points for less chance of killing a vehicle, for 15 for a better chance at killing the same tank, being able to shoot before charging, and losing 1 attack???

Court: people really dont pay attention to this, but the Lhamaean is DIRT cheap for what she brings compared to a comprimal model elsewhere in our dex. Im not saying this is a saving grace, but its worth considering how cheap they can be.

Also the Medusa makes an interesting flamer squad. Take 1 of each, the max of medusas, and a liquifer haemie, and go burninate something

Succubus: I will have to say I do love the power spear on her. its a cheaper version of the agoniser, and your hoping that in a squad, they would of mauled it enough that the 2nd combat you can pop out. just an decent idea.

Haemie: actually against your basic unit haemies arent that bad in combat. Give them an axe (its really cheap for them) and let them go to town. Just dont go up against anything that can ID them, or any dedicated cmbat unit.

Wyches: I also will put up the laurals for the 5 man wych unit w/ haywires in venom. The ability to completely decimate any tank gives them a place up there with the standard warrior venom loadout. They are also the exact same points cost.

Also another wych is always better than any wych weapon. As it gives you another body. Also I think you should add that the razorflails are the best for damage ouput (the math is hanging around here somewhere on the site, if you cant find it, I will recreate it for you if you want)

Extra Thoughts: I agree with Mush about adding in wracks, also one would argue that hellions would be nice as well (they suck as a FA slot)

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 17:14

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
Finally while I understand the strengths of both a haywire grenade and blaster for an archon, one thing none of you brought up is the Archon's ability to throw a haywire. This potentially gives him 2 chances to strip hull points for a vehicle. My food for thought to all of you.
My counter would be - what is this Archon doing assaulting vehicles? Do you buy an Archon to throw grenades at a vehicle and assault it? I don't. Seems like crazy talk considering the way killing an HQ is scored nowadays and doesn't serve any of the Archon's real strengths.
Again - this is a 'in case this' option. Yes, it works, yes, it is good for what it is doing...but unless things have gone bad there's no reason for the Archon to be trying to do this.

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
Also the Medusa makes an interesting flamer squad. Take 1 of each, the max of medusas, and a liquifer haemie, and go burninate something
I'd meant to point this out and forgot. I wouldn't call it good, but will agree it's not bad either, and is a decent use for the unit - especially with so many players apparently deciding somehow that Mech is dead in 6th.

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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 17:32

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
Finally while I understand the strengths of both a haywire grenade and blaster for an archon, one thing none of you brought up is the Archon's ability to throw a haywire. This potentially gives him 2 chances to strip hull points for a vehicle. My food for thought to all of you.

I would point out that I did mention throwing the grenade.

@Thor665 wrote:
My counter would be - what is this Archon doing assaulting vehicles? Do you buy an Archon to throw grenades at a vehicle and assault it? I don't. Seems like crazy talk considering the way killing an HQ is scored nowadays and doesn't serve any of the Archon's real strengths.
Again - this is a 'in case this' option. Yes, it works, yes, it is good for what it is doing...but unless things have gone bad there's no reason for the Archon to be trying to do this.

Yes it's not the ideal option but it's a very valid option when the need presents itself. For only 5 points I definatly think it's worth it to have the option of blowing up a leman russ your transport got shot down close to or pop a land raider that the juicy IC is hiding in. Sure ideally you don't use your archon for that but you can't always get the ideal.

I'm not saying every archon should have them, far from it (the only item ever archon should have is the shadow field, everything else depends on tastes and composition). My only problem was with how negative the article presented the option (and how negatively some people are presenting the option in the comments), which in my opinion, is far from how useful they can be. Do they make an expensive unit more expensive? Sure, everything does, but they provide a strong option for really very little investment that can and will pay off.


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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 17:38

Personally I like haywire grenades on succubi if I have the points so they can split from their squad and double tap a transport with 1-2HP and charge the survivors (or charge the tank and use it as cover etc). As a backup weapon it's handy, but it's not something you take to kill tanks. That's what the blaster is for. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 17:44

Was anyone saying the Haywire grenades were anything but a backup weapon?
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 19:24

@Murkglow wrote:
Was anyone saying the Haywire grenades were anything but a backup weapon?

Sorry, I must have misunderstood, I though you were saying there was no reason not to take a haywire grenade on an archon. Embarassed

On another note. After much discussion and analysis with Shadows Revenge in chat, although we came across a situation where 7 wyches with a razor flail was more damage/point efficient in assault against MEQ/QEQ than 9 wyches (after both their raiders suffering an explosion). Despite this the advantages of an extra wych instead of a wych weapon are too many (extra haywire grenade, extra wound if your raider doesn't explode or gets wrecked, extra 0.45 wound if it explodes, extra splinter shot, more models for working out leadership tests, etc). So I would agree with Shadow's assessment even after taking into consideration explosions, an extra wych is always a better choice. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 20:22

@Mushkilla wrote:

On another note. After much discussion and analysis with Shadows Revenge in chat, although we came across a situation where 7 wyches with a razor flail was more damage/point efficient in assault against MEQ/QEQ than 8 wyches (after both their raiders suffering an explosion).

Dont worry Mush, I fixed that for yah Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 21:52

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
Dont worry Mush, I fixed that for yah Wink

NOOOO! What have you done *brain explodes*. Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 22:13

The Mindphase Gauntlet is useful in a melee vs MC/IC with a slower than 5 initiative. if you stack mixed Heamies (one Ancient, and one Regular).

Give the Haemie Ancient the Mindphase, and the other a Power Axe.

Ancient Hits and Stuns, while Lab Assistant goes to town...

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 19:12

have to say i would take a team of 9 wych and an arch all with HWG and wych weapons on the wyches my arch looks like this

arch
HWG
husk-blade
blaster

depending on what i want to do i will ether shoot with the blaster or throw a HWG before attacking a tank with all the HWG and if there is nothing to attack i range i will just shoot the blaster
so recap
HWG for tank killing
blaster for MEQ killing or ranged tank potshots
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 05 2012, 23:36

Thanks for all the comments, here are my thoughts in response...

Quote :

You mention them as great Tank hunters but disregard the value of 1 or 2 5man HWG units in Venoms. Sure you may lose a few should the Venom explode but even down a member or 2 the unit can still wreck a mid level vehicle every turn if everyone hits.
I disregarded them because I’m not convinced of their effectiveness. Even with all 5 alive, if the target vehicle has moved you can easily fluff enough rolls to not wreck it, and then you’re stood in the open in front of the guns. For example, the expectation for 5 Wyches is 2.778 glance/pens, with 4 you’re down to 2.222 and 3 get 1.667 ... That said, this ignores the possibility of throwing a grenade before you assault, which would swing the balance back again. I guess I’ve talked myself around: I’ll write a little add-on mention.

Quote :

Reading the Electro Whip entree you almost seem to give it a positive review (or at least don't mention its negative aspects), I'm a bit surprised by this. Generally speaking the Electro Whip is never taken and commonly shunned. Did you find the whip useful or was this a mistake? You're harder on the whip in the Succubus section for example (though still sound somewhat positive which was again surprising).
What’s not to like about the ECW? For 5 points more than a power sword, you get a power sword that halves your enemy’s strength if he takes a wound. Like all power weapons, it’s a bit situational (avoid 2+ Sv), but it can be a real bonus in combats where a single hit would otherwise insta-kill you.

Quote :

2) Likewise you're very positive regarding the Soul-Trap but again don't mention its failings. While I surely am a fan of the item it's not a consistent piece of equipment by any stretch (it can often be useless vs some armies, IG for example, or close to useless if the enemy has few ICs that are hard to get to) and often requires you to work to make it worthwhile (taking Combat Drugs/the right retinue to get that first kill, ect...).
Fair point – I will mention the difficulties you can have in lining up the right kill to make it glow, and the work you have to put into setting it up. Why is it useless against IG though? They have independent characters you can target, and when you get S6 you can really tear through guardsmen and vehicles.

Quote :

3) Speaking of which I'm surprised there is no mention of Combat Drugs in the sample builds. I can understand skipping it on the cheap VB+SF build but, especially on the Soul-Trap builds, you need all the help you can get getting that first character kill to activate the trap, Combat Drugs are one of the best ways to get that help. Not required of course but still, I'm a bit curious.
Combat drugs are useful, but I view them very much as an, “if I have a few spare points” item. I haven’t included them in the example builds as I don’t think they’re an essential component.

Blasters
I’ve been won over by the many voices in favour of the Archon with Blaster – I’ll revise my assessment of the weapon for him, and at a standard build with Blaster.

Haywire Grenades
Still not 100% sold on these, but I’ve probably been over-harsh. I’ll moderate the entry at least and point out that it’s not many points to gain a decent stab at damaging a vehicle.

@Mushkilla: You make a lot of valid points. I’m not going to quote every one and tell you I agree, because I’m too lazy. I’ll make additions to the text though and re-post when I’m done Smile

Quote :
Haem
Considering how much you mathhammer some stuff, I'm amazed you don't touch the sad state of affairs that is the Hexrifle.
Honestly didn’t think of it – I’ll take a look

Quote :
Raider
Our ramming capability is actually pretty decent - yeah, the Raider likely gets penned...but also whatever it rammed likely gets the same.
Not convinced I’d want to be sacrificing Raiders like that, but I’ll mention it as an option at least.

Quote :
Warriors
There was actually good synergy for Sybarites with Blast Pistols in a Duke Deep Strike army last edition. Though that army itself has been nerfed the core concept still holds if you are deep striking a unit in.
Why would a static warrior squad want a PGL? Really just for the 8" stealth? I do not grok.
You have to be fairly precise with your deep strikes to land in Blast Pistol range, and then you’re generally wide open for an assault. I wouldn’t try the tactic for that reason. The PGL on static warriors is not to get stealth, but to discourage chargers because they lose their bonus attacks.

@Shadows Revenge: also several valid points, which I’ll incorporate in the next draft.

When I get a chance I’ll re-draft sections as mentioned above, and post here for further critique.

Thanks again,

-Plastikente

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 06 2012, 00:22

@Plastikente wrote:
What’s not to like about the ECW? For 5 points more than a power sword, you get a power sword that halves your enemy’s strength if he takes a wound. Like all power weapons, it’s a bit situational (avoid 2+ Sv), but it can be a real bonus in combats where a single hit would otherwise insta-kill you.

I believe the issue that is commonly put forward is that vs the things that you want to reduce the strength of (Monsterous Creatures) you're going to have a very hard time actually getting a wound to land using the whip. For the same price you could have an Agonizer which will give you a decent chance of hurting the MC if not outright killing it. I suppose vs a Chaplin or a Power Fist it's ok but...
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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 06 2012, 04:31

@Plastikente wrote:
You have to be fairly precise with your deep strikes to land in Blast Pistol range, and then you’re generally wide open for an assault. I wouldn’t try the tactic for that reason. The PGL on static warriors is not to get stealth, but to discourage chargers because they lose their bonus attacks.
In the old edition you had to land within 9" to have viable Blast Pistol shots.
In this edition you have a range of 12"
And that's ignoring the size of the transport - which makes it easier.

So, basically to use a blast pistol you have to be able to deep strike within a foot of your target - I don't think that is exactly a narrow margin of psychotic difficulty - that's actually a pretty big sweep of the board..

As for the assault thing - if the idea of assaulting 20 odd Warriors who will double tap you on the way in doesn't discourage assault, I am not certain why losing a charge attack bonus would. Maybe just me - but I think you're overstating the relevance of that bit of wargear for that build.

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PostSubject: Re: Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units   Plastikente's Dark Eldar Unit Guide Part 2 - Core Units I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 06 2012, 09:34

@Thor665 wrote:

In the old edition you had to land within 9" to have viable Blast Pistol shots.
In this edition you have a range of 12"
And that's ignoring the size of the transport - which makes it easier.

Ah yes, I had missed the fact that you can disembark after deep striking, provided you didn't buy retrofire jets.

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