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 Is it time for the hybrid ravager?

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 14:54

I think if you want or feel you need more dissies in a list you should put them on raiders. I personally love the assurance that 3 x 3DL Ravagers brings. I rarely change this HS load out. 315pts. Great AT coverage. I take them at 1,000 points.

Come to think of it, I remember somewhere, someone did the mathhammer for a dissie raider vs a 2xSC venom. Could someone link me to that? Is it in that awesome unit tactica created over the last few months?
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Squierboy
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 18:10

@mug7703 wrote:
Come to think of it, I remember somewhere, someone did the mathhammer for a dissie raider vs a 2xSC venom. Could someone link me to that? Is it in that awesome unit tactica created over the last few months?

Don't know about it already done somewhere, but it's an easy one to do.

Vs MEQ
Disintegrator = 1.33 wounds
2xSC = 1.33 wounds
From there you can easily see that if the MEQ has a cover save, the disintegrator gets statistically worse.

Vs GEQ:
Disintegrator = 1.66 wounds
2xSC = 2.66 wounds
So the venom is unsurprisingly better vs light troops.

Vs TEQ:
Disintegrator = 0.88 wounds
2xSC = 0.22 wounds

Vs a Big Monster (T7, 3+ save)?
Disintegrator = 0.33 wounds
2xSC = 1.33 wounds
The disi is slightly better vs a 2+ save monster though

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curebdc
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 18:31

Yeah I honestly have never taken dissies lol. I always decide to keep the lances...sweet, sweet lances. Good info for very small games tho. At 500 points I may switch out a lance on a raider. Nobody has mentioned that btw, why mixa ravagers load out when you could just swap out that 1 lance raider for a dissie? Then there is no wasted shots.

Edit: as I typed that there were like 5 more responses lol. Fair enough, gotta love the active community!

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 19:14

Wow! Thanks Squlerboy! The mathhammer confirms I'd rather take a Venom over a Raider (transporting large units aside). I think I'd only take a Raider for the extra DL shot. And wouldn't take Dissies on my Ravagers as I love those 9 lance shots.
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DominicJ
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 19:30

I've got 9 Venoms on order Smile

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 22:44

@DominicJ wrote:
I've got 9 Venoms on order Smile

What size list are they for?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2013, 09:24

@mug7703 wrote:
@DominicJ wrote:
I've got 9 Venoms on order Smile

What size list are they for?

Well, as they're 65 points each I'm guessing...a lot!

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 22 2013, 11:08

Lol, I meant for 1250, 1500, 1750 etc Razz
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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2013, 14:13

@Squierboy wrote:
@mug7703 wrote:
Come to think of it, I remember somewhere, someone did the mathhammer for a dissie raider vs a 2xSC venom. Could someone link me to that? Is it in that awesome unit tactica created over the last few months?

Don't know about it already done somewhere, but it's an easy one to do.

Well I'm sorry to tell you but you did it not quite right.

@Squierboy wrote:

Vs MEQ
Disintegrator = 1.33 wounds - it is 1.66 wounds, as I recall dissis where S6
2xSC = 1.33 wounds
From there you can easily see that if the MEQ has a cover save, the disintegrator gets statistically worse. That is if there is no target that is out of cover, and I find there is usually a target without a coversave, but that may just be me :-)

Vs GEQ:
Disintegrator = 1.66 wounds
2xSC = 2.66 wounds
So the venom is unsurprisingly better vs light troops.

Vs TEQ:
Disintegrator = 0.88 wounds - it is 1.111 as like MEQ
2xSC = 0.22 wounds - it is 0.667

Vs a Big Monster (T7, 3+ save)?
Disintegrator = 0.33 wounds - it is 0.667
2xSC = 1.33 wounds
The disi is slightly better vs a 2+ save monster though

Well now it's better. ;-) I guess you calculated with a S of 5 for the dissis, can happen. It would have also been nice to see that against T5&6 the dissis is also better, that is, without cover.

But you can not compare them in a vacuum. The raider has one more HP and can take double the passengers, warriors with splinter racks are nasty.
Still I would take a dissis ravager over 3 dissis raiders. Its more durable (AV11, no glance death from S4) and its easier to focus you fire.

But in the end it comes to how you build your army, and I think only taking SC for your AI is not "all comers". but each their own pain token ;-)

Sláinte

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2013, 15:13

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Well now it's better. ;-) I guess you calculated with a S of 5 for the dissis, can happen.

Dissies are S5. Squireboy's maths is right.

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Squierboy
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2013, 15:45

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Well now it's better. ;-) I guess you calculated with a S of 5 for the dissis, can happen.

Dissies are S5. Squireboy's maths is right.

He he, thought I'd made a major boo-boo there. I did however get the 2xSC vs TEQ wrong, so thanks to Crazy_Irish for correcting that.

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Crazy_Irish
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 23 2013, 21:32

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Well now it's better. ;-) I guess you calculated with a S of 5 for the dissis, can happen.

Dissies are S5. Squireboy's maths is right.

Wow, serious? Than I must apologise, I could have sworn,I WOULD have sworn, that it was S6. Sorry Squierboy.

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DanceofDecemberSouls
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 24 2013, 02:45

It was my experience in 5th that for a shooty list or even a half and half list it was always a good thing to bring an all dissie ravager to bear. Especially for tournaments, where you know people are bringing their cheesiest squads to bear. It was fun to waste a large DA termie squad between a sliscus/trueborn squad in a dissie raider and a dissie ravager in one turn of shooting. I know we're not always that lucky, but that was hilarious. I laughed maniacally as any Archon would.
I can't imagine taking strong anti infantry and strong anti vehicle choices will be any less important in 6th. (I haven't played a 6th game yet as I've been too busy with school but I've come home to the dark City to go out and conquer realspace again.)

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Squierboy
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 24 2013, 17:23

@Crazy_Irish wrote:
Sorry Squierboy.

No worries, it's so easy to get those kind of things wrong Smile

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Selvhan
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 12 2013, 13:52

Guys, what would be the best choice if you would have to play against lots of AS3+ army ?

Because I often have to face Blood Angel, Dark Angel, Necron, Grey Knight and Chaos SM.


To win a game, most of the time you have to hold objective and deny them. So if you kill lotsof their Space Marine ASAP, you have a better chance to protect some point.

Normal SM have t4 and AS3+. So the DC will normally do 4 wounds with no AS vs a little less than 2 for the DL.

And since we have the wyches, Talos and trueborn to destroy almost any vehicle, wouldn't it be better to get some DC ?

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ctadkins
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 16 2013, 04:47

I will throw in here, that for a long time I have run 1 Dissie/2 Lance ravagers... and in my meta it works very well for me...and that is a key point. It took me some playing around to get used to the idea, but it grew on me to have that range of possibility for them.

Now understand i play in an environment that loves their 3+ saves and absolutely adores their 2+ saves, and with 6th edition has decided that metal boxes are best left at home...( i actually catch alot of crap for still " running an old 5th edition style list" ) so dropping a lance is ok for me...

But being able to say to my opponent, thats 5 AP 2 wounds on your Terminator squad there... it feels nice.

My 2 cents which probably arnt worth the metal they are made of...
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Sulphunet
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 16 2013, 17:15

You got a good point there ctadkins, it really does depend on your meta.

I say try it out a couple times, make notes on how useful the hybrid was, and compare them to a regular Ravager. In the end, it comes down to flexibility compared to tradition (hybrid vs. standard).

I might try out a hybrid Ravager sometime, a lot of Space Marines where I come from, and an increasing amount of Terminators.

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