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 Is it time for the hybrid ravager?

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Captain Mayhem
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PostSubject: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 30 2012, 03:33

I'm talking about taking dual disintegrators on a ravager and leaving one lance on for glancing, and one disintegrator joining two dark lances for those who still think in 5th ed constructs.

I only had one chance to try out a hybrid ravager before they got glanced to death in the first game, so I don't have an answer to my question. So I'm putting it out to you guys. Have you tried such a setup? how'd it work out? Would you still use it or go back to the tried-and-true triple lancers?

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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 30 2012, 12:32

Don't know how it would work but hybrid means comprimise in my book. However in this case- might work, hard to say

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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 01 2012, 01:23

I'd rather take 1 dedicated dissy ravager and 2 DL ravagers.
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crion
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2012, 00:06

Had that thought, then met a mech army.. We need our DLs still. Splintercannons for AI.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2012, 08:58

@Captain Mayhem wrote:
for those who still think in 5th ed constructs.


So people who consider mech viable think in 5th edition constructs? Interesting. Personally I don't think 6th edition has been out long enough for mech to be dismissed. I have yet to play these all infantry armies that the internet speaks so highly of.

Mech isn't daed, it's just a knee jerk reaction to the vehicle changes. In fact it's still very powerful, give it a few months and all these silly infantry armies will get back in their metal boxes. The only reason mech failed in certain tournaments (NOVA) is due to vehicles not being able to claim table quarters (table quarters being a rule unique to that tournament).

Guard Mech, Necron Mech, Tau Mech, DE Mech are all still better than their infantry counterparts.

As for sticking a mixture of lances and dissies on a ravager, personally I think it's a waste of time, either go all dissintegrators or all lances. If you have three ravagers, and run two with all dissies and one will all lance, you have the same number of dissies and lances as your hybrid, except they will never be wasted shooting at the wrong targets.


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Grub
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2012, 10:27

Agree with Mush, all infantry armies still don't work as well in 6th as they are made out to. Although it might be easier in some regards to get rid of mech, in others its tougher- if you glance a raider twice in 5th there is a strong chance to bring it down, you glance it twice in 6th- no change. Tau mech has got significantly stronger for example. With the Hybrid Ravager though, hybrid means compromise, comprimise is never that great. If you want your ravager to be the bane of terminators and light armour you might as well go all dissies, if tank hunter- all DL, by mixing it up, might be acceptable against some armies maybe Chaos daemons, perhaps tau to get that insta kill on that broadside but, I imagine (hate mathammer as its never really what happens) but it just feels like it would be less effective hen going one way or another. Same with most units- some people praise versatility, but you wouldn't make a 10 man warrior squad with a blaster designated tank hunters right?

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 06:18

I dont understand this new found love that people have for Dissies, if its because many use Infantary armys? Well, isnt it just better to bring alot of Venoms. They will do the job, and even so wil DL Ravagers. Then you actually have a allcommers army rather than actually gimping yourself against certain armys.

We allready are bad at AT, so lets go and make our best AT unit worse... where is the logic in that?

Ok so lets say you go to a turnement with Dissies, say its 100players there and MOST of them go infantary (not everyone is going to) and then you meet 1 of these 5-10 who doesnt play infantary, what are you going to do then? Use those few lances you got? We all know how predictable the darklight can be so if you arnt lucky with dices you are fcked. And you have made target priority very easy for him aswell...

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baster
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 08:35

at my club half the players changed and went all infantry, the other half stayed mech. needless to stay the mech half have fared better when they sorted through the new rules, (only 1 cron flying circus too). played chaos bike army last night and wiped it by turn 3 that player will go back to using his mech now. think i will start to see some chaos preds appear

i totally agree that hybrid is not a viable option, use the ravager with either dissie or lance for maximum efficiency 1 lance and 2 dissie wont get that tank to pop, and 2 lance 1 dissie may still not pop the tank and whats the 1 dissie gunna do? may as well take another raider
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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 03 2012, 10:25

Hybrid always has been and always will be a waste unless all vehicles gain Split Fire, which I very much doubt will happen.

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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 23:42

I really, really dislike equipping a unit to fill multiple roles. Mediocre at two things instead of good at one thing is still mediocre.

(Obviously, highly specialized units are a big reason why I'm an Eldar player.)

Adding an anti-vehicle weapon to an anti-infantry squad is about all I'll do on that front, and then only if it can still contribute to the squad's main objective - e.g., for a Kabalite Warrior squad, a blaster is good, dark lances are not.
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Sulphunet
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 02:58

I just played in a tournament at 1850Pts, and I brought 5 Raiders that all had Dark Lances. I also brought 2 Ravagers, one with 3 Dark Lances and the other with 3 Disintegrator Cannons. I did fairly well in the tournament too, all you need is a mix. Dark Lances work well against infantry and tanks, while Disintergrator Cannons only work well against infantry. You just have to base the ratio off of that.

In fact, 1 or 2 Raiders with a Disintegrator Cannon might have been a better idea (but I did go up against Daemons in one game, so that does bias it a little)



And to Anggul, I see you love Futurama!

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 04:36

I can't see mixing the armament on a Ravager (I don't like mixed duty on such a fragile vehicle) when you can simply buy another one for 105pts. I say take both Twisted Evil

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 07:01

Well, tbh, a better list with more venoms and less raiders, and having all DL Ravangers might actually have made your turnement finish gone from "fairly well" to "very good".

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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 13:54

I did have 2 Venoms in there, that was all i had at the time of the tournament.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 15:47

@Darklight wrote:
I dont understand this new found love that people have for Dissies

because they're more efficient against TEQ than anything else we can bring. I'd love to see the look on a DA players face when he brings his deathwing army to be faced by a fleet of raiders/ravagers all carrying dissies.

I did get slightly confused when I saw the title of this article though, thought we were talking about sticking a battery power cell in their propulsion system to make them more fuel efficient, do you think forgeworld will make a Raider Prius variant???

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Squierboy
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 18:13

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
I did get slightly confused when I saw the title of this article though, thought we were talking about sticking a battery power cell in their propulsion system to make them more fuel efficient, do you think forgeworld will make a Raider Prius variant???

He he!

"The Dark Eldar: All our swift kill-ships are equipped with hybrid engines to protect your environment."

Also, I do agree with other posters about this topic. Mixing weapons makes no sense when the ravager can move 12" and still fire all 3 weapons (A reason for mixing in the past was due to limitations on number of weapons being fired when moving at higher speeds), and is also such a cheap (almost throwaway) platform that simply buying another with a different weapons loadout is the better solution.

Us DE players can't afford to muck about - when we fire at a tank, we need it to be dead as quickly & efficiently as possible. 3 DL on a dedicated platform is one of the best ways of doing this (at long range).

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 19:03

@Squierboy wrote:
"The Dark Eldar: All our swift kill-ships are equipped with hybrid engines to protect your environment."
.

What do you think the sails are? Dark Eldar vehicles are the greenest in the galaxy. Its to guarantee our customers don't feel bad about their carbone foot print when buying slaves. Very Happy

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krayd
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 21:57

I've taken a 2dissie/1DL ravager for very low point (500 pts or less) combat patrol style games. The reason being that you're going to want to take out your opponent's vehicles quickly, but he's probably not going to have more than 1 or 2 in a combat patrol... so when the vehicles are slagged, you're going to want your ravager to have a little extra anti-infantry punch in order to be maximally useful in the endgame.
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 19 2013, 22:38

@krayd wrote:
I've taken a 2dissie/1DL ravager for very low point (500 pts or less) combat patrol style games. The reason being that you're going to want to take out your opponent's vehicles quickly, but he's probably not going to have more than 1 or 2 in a combat patrol... so when the vehicles are slagged, you're going to want your ravager to have a little extra anti-infantry punch in order to be maximally useful in the endgame.

I can see how this might be useful at this size of game, though so far 1000 has been the smallest match I've played.

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 07:18

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
I dont understand this new found love that people have for Dissies

because they're more efficient against TEQ than anything else we can bring. I'd love to see the look on a DA players face when he brings his deathwing army to be faced by a fleet of raiders/ravagers all carrying dissies.

I did get slightly confused when I saw the title of this article though, thought we were talking about sticking a battery power cell in their propulsion system to make them more fuel efficient, do you think forgeworld will make a Raider Prius variant???

Yes. they are more effective against TEQ.
In other words, if you list tailor against certain oponents and know he isnt bringing and all out mech list then Dissies are better than DL.

If you want to make and allcommers list and play competitive then DL are better.

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 11:22

Seeing as this is a discussion on tactics.... off we go to Tactics Smile

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Sulphunet
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 13:22

An all comers list is better with more Dark Lances, but I still think Disintegrator Cannons have a place there. Assuming the army is large enough (1500+), you will always have infantry to shoot at.

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 20:27

@Darklight wrote:
@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
@Darklight wrote:
I dont understand this new found love that people have for Dissies

because they're more efficient against TEQ than anything else we can bring. I'd love to see the look on a DA players face when he brings his deathwing army to be faced by a fleet of raiders/ravagers all carrying dissies.

I did get slightly confused when I saw the title of this article though, thought we were talking about sticking a battery power cell in their propulsion system to make them more fuel efficient, do you think forgeworld will make a Raider Prius variant???

Yes. they are more effective against TEQ.
In other words, if you list tailor against certain oponents and know he isnt bringing and all out mech list then Dissies are better than DL.

If you want to make and allcommers list and play competitive then DL are better.

How is it list tailoring? Sure, the extreme example I mentioned about dark angels might be, but might I point out that actually, dissies are also more efficient against meqs than dark lances. I accept if you're shooting at infantry with them, you've either taken out all the armoured targets or your fire discipline isn't great. I have one dissie ravager and one lance version, and would take them both if points allow, I like to have all the weapon options available to me in a game so I can use the right tool for the job.

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baster
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeWed Feb 20 2013, 22:28

i only have 1 ravager currently but the next 1 will be all dissie, my meta will allow for it. but i will upgrade my razor wing for a void raven to re balance the list as for hybrid not a chance you may only get a couple of turns with our paper boats so it has to be dedicated
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Sulphunet
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PostSubject: Re: Is it time for the hybrid ravager?   Is it time for the hybrid ravager? I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 21 2013, 12:32

That's what I did baster, I run a Voidraven with 2 Implosion Missiles and one of each Ravager. Using the Ravager with Dark Lances, I blew up a Grey Knight Land Raider on turn on and then shot the General inside with a Raider's Dark Lance and killed him.

Using the Ravager with Disintegrator Cannons, I killed half of a 10 man Grey Knight unit and continued to put Splinter Fire into it.

Both have their uses, and neither weapon should ever be left out. But I do take more Dark Lances than Disintegrator Cannons.

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