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 Talos Pain engine

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Allandrel
stilgar27
Ferox77
doomseer11b
jb7090
Murkglow
Mushkilla
Balisong
Count Adhemar
Roy89
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stilgar27
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 17:49

^^
Wow you guys respond fast.

Now that I think about it I realize what a silly question it was. I did know that units need not have a close combat weapon to fight in CC (RifleDreads being a good example); But I guess I assumed there would be SomE downside to it.

I should have realized that the D6 attacks was part of the unit's stat line is therefore applied regardless of what equipment load out they receive.

I am actually trying to find a reason not to convert both of my talos to liquifiers. I doubt I'll ever use them both at the same time, but I don't see any other viable option. (And ya I already have a Chronos I never use either).

As a side note: I remember reading somewhere in the fluff, that kabalite warriors don't need CCW because they use all the pointy bits on their armor as one. I found the thought of my scrawny space elves launching headbutts and flying elbows at their enemies pretty funny.

Anyway, Thanks for making my decision clear.
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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 04 2012, 23:55

A unit that can only be taken as a single model cannot be joined by ICs, so no Haemy with a Talos or Cronos.
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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 05 2012, 03:15

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Balisong wrote:
Good point! Didn't even think about "Smash Attacks".

It makes Talos a lot more reliable against vehicles (combined with the auto hitting S7 hammer of wrath hit), even if you roll a 1 for attacks that's still one S7 hammer of wrath and two S10 smash attacks (one attack divided by two rounded up is one and then you add one for charging). Add that now vehicles are hit on 3s if they move and automatically if they don't move talos can really trash some tanks. The smash attacks are also great for causing instant death on T4-5 models (which means it also ignores FNP). The rounding up is great too, if you roll a three for attacks that gives you the choice of 3+1(for charging) S7 attacks or 2+1(for charging) S10 attacks, you are only loosing one attack in exchange for S10! Very Happy

I found a use for the Ichor Injector: High Toughness/Multi-model, Multi-wound models.

Any model with a 6+ toughness and multiple wounds, or multi-model units of Toughness 4 2 wound creatures is where you want the Ichor Injector over the Chain Flails or the Liquifier.

2 S10 Smash Attacks isn't going to put something with 3 or more wounds and t6 down.

Multiple (5+) model units at T4 with 2+ wounds (ex. Painboys) is another example. Smash may Kill 1-2, but the rest will bring the talos down.

Liquifier is unlikely to cause enough wounds in either case.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 05 2012, 07:49

@Balisong wrote:

I found a use for the Ichor Injector: High Toughness/Multi-model, Multi-wound models.

Any model with a 6+ toughness and multiple wounds

The rules for the ichor injector, state that it only causes instant death if the model fails a toughness test, anything with T5 or above only has a 1/6 chance of failing that test, even T4 only has a 1/3 chance of failing that test. So it's still useless.

Personally that's what the twin-linked splinter cannon is for (and shooting down flying MCs).


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Balisong
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 05 2012, 18:05

It's not great, but a 1/6 chance is better than not being able to kill anything in a round.

Agree that the Splinter is Godly on them for MC.

Liquifier + Splinter Cannon makes it one of the best units to bring for Tyranids.
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PaulT
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 28 2012, 14:35

Something else on the talos, thought I'd tack it on this thread rather than start a new one. If it charges into combat over difficult terrain does it drop to initiative one as do troops or not at all because its a monstrous creature?

Also a cheesy question, the talos is modeled hunched over so its not possible to model him pointing the TL liqiufier gun straight out aiming, so do you still place the template from the muzzle of the gun even though its pointing almost straight at the ground? if he actually could raise that big arm of his that template would gain an inch or two.
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BMD
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 28 2012, 14:53

When using template weapons, you place the narrow end of the template so that it touches the base of the firing model. Pg. 52
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 28 2012, 17:38

@PaulT wrote:
Something else on the talos, thought I'd tack it on this thread rather than start a new one. If it charges into combat over difficult terrain does it drop to initiative one as do troops or not at all because its a monstrous creature?

They strike at I1 just like anyone else who charges through cover.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 04:35

I believe the ap needs to be rerolled for twin linked. Look at the special rules for twin-linked in the rule book.

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Mt252368
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 04:44

"Twin Linked Template Weapons
Twin-linked Ternplate weapons are fired just like a single weapon, but must re-roll failed To Wound and armour penetration rolls."

(Pg 43 BRB)

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 06:10

@Murkglow wrote:
Indeed, a model does not need a ccw to make use of its attack stat (just look at our warriors for example, they don't have a ccw). Just having one ccw does nothing, it's the same as not having one at all. Why does it have one listed then? So you can buy the second ccw and gain a +1 attack for having two. Naturally buying twin-linked liquifiers means you can no longer do this (since you lose the first ccw getting it) but frankly I don't think the extra ccw was worth buying even if you wanted a melee talos so no lose there.

If I just had the Talos with the liquifier gun then he should have normal attacks. He won't just sit there and play with his thumbs in melee.
If a Talos has liquifier and extra close combat weapon then he gets normal attacks +1.
He can always get the +1 from buying the extra close combat weapon.

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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 07:42

@shadowseercB wrote:
If a Talos has liquifier and extra close combat weapon then he gets normal attacks +1.
He can always get the +1 from buying the extra close combat weapon.

Could you explain your reasoning here? Because as far as I can tell, he does not. He gives up his first CCW to gain the liquifiers and buying the additional CCW no longer gives him +1 attack because he lacks his first CCW.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 09:04

@Murkglow wrote:
@shadowseercB wrote:
If a Talos has liquifier and extra close combat weapon then he gets normal attacks +1.
He can always get the +1 from buying the extra close combat weapon.

Could you explain your reasoning here? Because as far as I can tell, he does not. He gives up his first CCW to gain the liquifiers and buying the additional CCW no longer gives him +1 attack because he lacks his first CCW.

Yeah, I'm afraid ShadowseercB is wrong on this one. Trading out a ccw for TL Liquifier then buying another ccw still leaves you with one ccw, not 2. This only appears strange as having no ccw is the same effect as having one.

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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 17:38

My reasoning is that if he has a liquifier and only the liquifier he can still get in melee attacks as normal. So buying an additional ccw would give +1 attack still.

on page 92 of the rule book it says,

Replace one of its close combat weapons with (which suggests that there is more than one ccw or the option for one atleast)
-twin liquifier gun
-Ichor Injector
-Chain-flails

The next option says

Take:
-Additional close combat weapon

Those two options are in separate sections. It does not say get to take a twinlink, ichor injector, chain-flail, or take an additional close combat weapon.

I dont see how im wrong but if I am then wow.
So this means I cannot a chain-flail and have an additional close combat weapon making it chainflail +1?
Can anyone educate me on how I could be wrong?

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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 17:43

The reason I believe the additional CCW doesn't do anything is because you need 2 CCWs to get the +1 attack. The Talos starts with 1 but if you buy a Liquifier you're giving that CCW up. So when you buy the additional CCW you're back to having 1 CCW (Start with 1 - 1 to get Liquifier +1 for buying an additional CCW = 1 CCW). Chain-Flails are special because they count as a CCW so swapping your CCW for Chain Flails still allows you to buy an additional CCW and gain that benefit (Chain Flails, ie CCW + additional CCW = 2 CCW and thus +1 attack).

Note however that trading your CCW for a Liquifier does not hinder you from fighting in melee as you don't actually need a CCW to fight in melee. A single CCW (or lacking a CCW entirely) doesn't have any effect at all.
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shadowseercB
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PostSubject: Re: Talos Pain engine   Talos Pain engine - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 17 2013, 17:53

Okay, so then the liquifier would not act as a pistol or an additional ccw. What I mean by that is HQ's can get in extra attack only by an additional close combat weapon or by pistol rule, and a liquifier is not a pistol, so I guess that would apply here too so I get your logic.
I hate when I do something like that, feel like im cheating, used him in combat for 2 games now.

Alright, thanks

EDIT: The additional ccw option is strange. They should just leave him with +1 by default so its just clearer.
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