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 Pathfinders + Farseer.

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jb7090
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alexwellace
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PostSubject: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 16:35

I'm getting my hands on a minimum squad of rangers very soon. By that i mean i lent out one of my codex's and hes converting some guardians with some of my wood elf cloaks Smile, but anyway i want these so i can get my hands on a farseer as i am HATING psykic powers at the moment. How should i equipt my Seer, i know she helps pyskic defense but how? Im totaly new to Psykic powers but thats where the party is, so here i come. What lore should i use, pyromancy sounds supercool or biomancy, never again will i be ID! Divination sounds alot like the powers eldar can get.

Where should my Seer go, if she went with rangers (pathfinders worth it?) and let them re-roll there covers while guiding them and dooming there foes but all those would help my wyches/warrirors almost as much, but she'd be in the firing line then. Atleast she'd be out the way with the rangers but letting wyches re-roll there dodge would be amazing. Are any of the other upgrades/powers worth it? Soulstones, eldrich storm, mind war, singing spear?

Im sorry ive never played eldar, or psykers before so i really need some help.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 16:47

Farseer, Ghost Helm, Runes of Warding, Spirt Stone - cast 2 powers per turn, enemy psykers test on 3d6 for all psychic powers, and you get a 3++ save vs perils. I'd stick her with the Rangers and use the codex powers to Doom the enemy and Guide the Rangers.

Personally though I prefer Eldrad. I know he costs more but he gets to cast an extra power, gets Runes of Witnessing and all of the codex powers (or 4 of the rulebook ones) plus better stats and an improved invulnerable save.

EDIT - Oh yeah, and Divination (ability to redeploy D3+1 units before start of game) is absolutely golden!

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alexwellace
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 16:52

But the fluff would die a little bit everytime i used him. Dont you think it needs a rest after the terrors Matt Ward has done to it Smile I remember almost raging at a Biel-tan army using him. also is the upgrade to pathfinders worth it?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 16:54

@alexwellace wrote:
But the fluff would die a little bit everytime i used him. Dont you think it needs a rest after the terrors Matt Ward has done to it Smile I remember almost raging at a Biel-tan army using him. also is the upgrade to pathfinders worth it?

I don't really care too much about the fluff. Pathfinder upgrade is worth it IMO.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 17:01

Depends, it make them really expensive, if all you plan is go to ground dont shine on the objective, then dont.

IF you wanna do some pew pew - then probably yes. But pathfinders really arent beasts at pew pew. Good against MC thou, flying and foot.

I really think they should have BS5 in the new codex.
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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 17:29

Doom and Fortune are both increadably powerful, personally though I prefer to stick with just one psychic power (doom) and not bothering to update the rangers to pathfinders. I also prefer to put the Farseer on a bike and join a unit of reavers to benifit from the skilled rider trait and be a mobile doom platform for 128 points + 177 for my configuration of reavers.

EDIT - the 2d6 run away if you shoot, and the fact that you can turbo boost away after dooming is what makes this appealing to me.

Pathfinders have been good for me to just go to ground alot and snap shot at things, admitidly they do almost no damage the way I use them but can pick out a few critical targets (like the gun with the melta gun or the flying MC)

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Fraust
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 19:30

It's worth noting the reason divination is so amazing is it actually works on dark eldar units, where powers like fortune don't.

As for pathfinders, I think they're worth the upgrade (3+ in ruins isn't it, or is it 2+), but I'm going to be running guardian jetbikes for a while and see how they do.

Also here's a nother vote for the fluff not mattering. The storyline/fluff of 40k is garbage in my opinion, so I give it the consideration it deserves when writing up lists.
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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 20:11

I always think of special character stats as being simply exceptional rather then being the person in question necessarily. So for example when I use Baron Sathonyx in my army I'm not writing the fluff that Baron Sathonyx is really in my army, instead my warband leader is just skilled and equipped similarly to how Baron Sathonyx is. Same with Eldrad, you don't necessarily have to have Eldrad himself in your army, you just have a very powerful Farseer.

Anyway, the only must buy for the Farseer to do what you want is the Runes of Warding. That's the Psychic Defense you're asking for. Beyond that you're simply equipping him to whatever task you want him to perform. Want alot of Psychic Powers? Buy them (and maybe Spirit Stones) or get Eldrad. What him to be with Reavers? Then you're going to need a Jetbike. Or skip it if he's going to stand around. Generally speaking Divination or the Eldar Codex powers are really the only ones used (and in fact Eldar Farseers can't even use Pyromancy nor Biomancy anyway, they only have Telepathy or Divination from the core rule book) but Telepathy isn't terrible and could be worth rolling on if you've got Eldrad and already have the Divination powers you want. My one word of warning is not to over upgrade. Just buy enough to do what you want and that's all.
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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 28 2012, 21:40

Divination primaris power lets you re-roll missing of one unit and it works on dark eldar units, but Doom lets you re-roll all wounds scored on a doomed unit which also works for dark eldar.

But if you want more than just Doom your probably want to go divination as others have mentioned

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 29 2012, 10:23

I took an allied Farseer and five Pathfinders in a battle yesterday. I equipped him with Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones and two powers, which I swapped for two rolls on the telepathy table. I ended up with Terrify and Invisibility, but anything off that table is good. Because they have a pretty good casting distance, as do quite a few of the powers Eldar have access to, he was able to bolster my Archon and Incubi when the deep striking and outflanking units arrived. I cast Invisibility on them and Terrify on their target unit. Suffice to say, they sliced and diced better than they've ever done before. However, I still lost - my problem was that I'd invested so many points into the Eldar detachment that I wanted to keep stuff close enough to benefit from the powers, and consequently I didn't advance quickly enough to contest objectives. Had my Farseer been on a jetbike, this wouldn't have been a problem, so that might be something to consider, otherwise he just can't keep up.

Pathfinders are very expensive, but they are pretty good at what they do, which is sit on an objective for the whole game (or until someone with a flamer turns up). Investing so many points into them to make them that durable does have the disadvantage that they can be very easy to ignore. If they're on a flank, your opponent might just completely ignore them, because they are renowned for being hard to shift and they just won't bother trying. I'm considering replacing them with Dire Avengers or Guardian jetbikes or something, either for lower points investment or more aggression. Runes of Warding are a must, last night they caused a Rune Priest to fry his own brain.

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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 29 2012, 10:44

@Mr Believer wrote:
I cast Invisibility on them and Terrify on their target unit.

Remember that some powers are Warp Charge 2 (Invisibility is for example) and a normal Farseer can only have 2 warp charges at once (and that's only if he has Spirit Stones). So if you cast Invisibility, that's all you get that turn, you can't cast Terrify (or Prescience/whatever) as well. If you want a more powerful psyker in eldar then your only option is Eldrad.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 29 2012, 10:51

As I said earlier, I really think the extra points for Eldrad are more than worth it. His ability to redeploy D3+1 units alone is worth the extra cost over a similarly equipped generic Farseer. In fact, if you actually take into account the fact that he has all of the codex powers he's actually cheaper than an equivalent Farseer (although you can't take all of the powers on a generic Farseer, who is limited to 4).

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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 29 2012, 14:56

Typically I only use Eldrad in 1850+ games. Yes he's good, but the extra cost and loss of maneuverability vs a jetseer isnt worth it to me.
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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 30 2012, 07:17

And if you like the redeploy move, whats wrong with Malys? She effectively does the same thing but costs half the points... I know she's useless otherwise but hey.

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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 30 2012, 07:59

You answered what's wrong with her yourself, she's fairly useless otherwise (well she can throw out a ton of S3 AP3 attacks but it's hard to use due to her other weaknesses). Meanwhile Eldrad is a level 3 psyker (one of the strongest in the entire game in fact) with excellent equipment that puts Malys to shame (for the most part Runes of Warding beat the tar out of Crystal Heart, which is just sad). He even does the redeploying better then her. She redeploys D3 units, he "relocates" D3+1 (though she can put them back in reserve and he cannot I don't think so there is that I guess...). I think that more then justifies his extra cost.
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 30 2012, 09:23

Eldrad is great for many reasons, one of the main being that he is much more cheaper than a regular Farseer with all his upgrades and powers while getting Mastery 3 to boot. Second, well, all those powers he knows? They equal a roll on the rulebook powers. That gives quite a big chance to get what you need from either Divination or Telepathy. And if that wasn't all, he can cast any power twice (barring the warp charge deficit, of course). He's really one of the best psykers in the game, that's for sure.

That said, I usually deploy my Farseer on a jetbike. Two cheapest powers to get a roll on Divination and Telepathy, Spirit Stones, Runes of Witnessing, Runes of Warding if I expect psykers against me, Singing Spear and then I stick her with Reavers to act as an aggressive front line disruption unit. 3+ cover save from Reavers when turboboosting adds a bit to the survivability.

Meanwhile, five Pathfinders sit on an objective, plink at enemies with their rifles and hope their measly damage output doesn't draw the enemy's attention. The longer they are ignored, the better for them, because with 2+ cover save, they will be incredibly tough to get off the board by shooting alone.

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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 30 2012, 10:09

For me, incorperating a Farseer gives my army the boost it needs in Psy defence. I keep her real simple; Jetbike with RoWard, Doom and a singing spear.

I run her with Beasts. Including Baron up front, the unit is 22 models strong, something stupid like 48 T3 wounds. In most cases, the Farseer can cast Doom on T1. The singing spear is good at taking off the last HP and allowing the Beasts to charge the insides.

I use 5 Pathfinders too. Sniper rule makes them good, can pick off Special Weapons, in a unit. A nice support unit

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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 30 2012, 13:15

@Count Adhemar wrote:
Farseer, Ghost Helm, Runes of Warding, Spirt Stone - cast 2 powers per turn, enemy psykers test on 3d6 for all psychic powers, and you get a 3++ save vs perils. I'd stick her with the Rangers and use the codex powers to Doom the enemy and Guide the Rangers.

Personally though I prefer Eldrad. I know he costs more but he gets to cast an extra power, gets Runes of Witnessing and all of the codex powers (or 4 of the rulebook ones) plus better stats and an improved invulnerable save.

EDIT - Oh yeah, and Divination (ability to redeploy D3+1 units before start of game) is absolutely golden!

the Helm is standard wargear, and i recomend both Runes and spirit stones. reason? you nullify Shadow in the Warp with Witnessing, and reverse it onto them with Warding...... Razz

rangers are good, though
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2012, 10:43

Well i used my Farseer first time yesterday ( RoW, Spirit stones, singing spear, doom + either mindwar or doom) and he personally won, with his pathfinder entourage, 3 games. All of which they where tabled by turn 4 or less and two of these where against Draigo/paladin/termie spam!

Out of all three games only 3 of there powers got of and they periled 2 times each. The pathfinders picked off models like no-ones buissiness with every round putting on at least 1 ap1 shot. I found all the upgrades useful apart from singing spear which bounced of termie armour. But thanks for all the help.
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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2012, 10:51

Nice one. What was the rest of your list?

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PostSubject: Re: Pathfinders + Farseer.   Pathfinders + Farseer. I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 02 2012, 15:56

It was a small match of 1,500 and i will be the first to say that i have the worst made list EVER.

Haemon w/ scizzorhands +liquirifyer
8 wyches + hek w/VB in raider with nightfields.
10 warriors with dark lance.
5 incubi
3 reavers with heatlance
5 scourges w/ 2 cannons
razorwing w/ dissies + poisen missiles.

Eldar
Farseer w/ runes of warding, spirit stones, singing spear with either doom, fortune, guide or mindwar.

5 pathfinders.

I won because it was easy to snipe of models and even 3/4 models a turn is big against an army like that. Plus i think he only passed 3 invons throught. Hid rangerz in a two story ruin and they proceded to snipe models while farseer doomed dredknight until dead. Reavers died early because i forgot to JSJ but apart from that everything went unreasonably well. Shooting at the right places took out all the psycannons on the first turn which is how i think i won as the raider took out a termie everyturn.

In other words i think i won because of unreasonable luck and my opponent wasnt very tactical, but his libby not doing his psycik trickery helped a lot Smile
I won the grey knights because it was so easy to snipe of a model with a dark lance
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