THE DARK CITY
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.



 
HomeDark Eldar WikiDark Eldar ResourcesNull CityRegisterLog in

 

 Voidraven vs Razorwing

Go down 
+11
baster
HERO
Irakunar Thrax
DominicJ
John M
colinsherlow
helvexis
Nomic
Seshiru
MalysII
mug7703
15 posters
Go to page : 1, 2  Next
AuthorMessage
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 23 2012, 13:25

Hi guys. I can't find a thread on this topic although I do remember reading things. Not sure if they were in bigger tactica articles or comments on people's army lists and the like. If we have a thread on just this then please link me...

The three load-outs I see that are common and worth it are:

1: Razorwing stock with FF (155pts) - 4 stock missiles, 2 DLs

This is the Jack of all trades take it and apply it to whatever you need on the battlefield. - Is it bad at doing everything though? As I read somewhere on the internet, it's referred to as a 'schizophrenic mess'.

2: Razorwing with 2 Disintegrators and FF (155pts) - 4 stock missiles, 2 Dissies

This is the dedicated AI killer. Hits horde and armour hard. Slight potential against vehicles if you can get the rear armour with 6 S5 shots but that is only in dire situations. - But then, do we really need more AI that is not always there when we want it to be and not able to hit every target? In a list with Reavers bladevaning and Venoms....er....venoming? Does it really have a place?

3: Voidraven with 2 shatterfield missiles (165pts) - 2 missiles, 2 boosted lances, clumsy bomb thingy

This is the more dedicated AT/AA flyer with S7 missiles and S9 lances to hit flyers and or tanks with although in can pop the missiles at infantry if need be. I've left the FF as an optional extra as you aren't always forced into evade (which the FF is there to prevent you needing to do) and if you are the next turn is a perfect time to fly off and drop the bomb if you haven't already. It also has higher armour so doesn't need it as much although I know people will want to take it. I was just thinking of keeping the cost down so it's only 10pts more than the Razorwing load-outs. I don't think I'd ever field it with 4 missiles and a FF as it comes to 195pts which I think is getting far too pricey. Can anyone get the void-bomb to reliably work?

The other things to consider are the rest of one's list and the opponent's list or local meta if you don't know who you're playing against. Do we take flyers to counter other flyers so they become encouraged in environments when you think it's likely you'll come up against an enemy flyer. If it's unlikely they'll take a flyer do we take one for air supremacy or do we stick with the Ravager and have points to spare? I know it also comes down to how much AT and AI is in the rest of our list and the size battle we're playing. I'm currently getting experience in with a 1000 point list and am wondering whether I should make 50 or 60 points worth of cuts and upgrade my 3rd Ravager to be a flyer.

If flyers should only be taken as a counter to enemy flyers in the absence of an ADL with QG then shouldn't we always take a Voidraven as it just does that job better?
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
MalysII
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 39
Join date : 2011-06-11

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 23 2012, 13:47

you put forward a good debate.... the Voidraven, though AV11 is, as you pointed out, with 4 missiles, is very pricey...

I personally would take the Voidraven as the Void Mine, while I Haven't tried it on the battle field looks a lot deadlier in this edition. yes, it's one-shot... but the 'raven moves... say 36" then ANYWHERE on that line can the mine be dropped... plus it's the only Lascannon-type gun the DE HAVE!!!!! we shouldn't really rely on Lances all the time, in my opinion
Back to top Go down
Seshiru
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 408
Join date : 2012-07-03

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 23 2012, 16:25

I've used the void raven and razorwings quite a bit, and I do have to say the void raven preforms much better.
The ADL + Quad Gun usually doesn't cut it as your only AA do the fact that you can just single out the quad gun and kill it pretty quickly. The extra strength on the void lance is a big deal since for AA/AT purposes both the Razorwing and VoidRaven will average about 1.3 hits per shooting but against an Armor 12 flyer the 1.3 hits will turn into 66% chance to due any damage with the razorwing with a 89% chance on the void raven.

For me the missles have been all lack luster, unless you know for certain that you are going againsts grey knight paladins then the implosion missles are quite nice.

The void mine works wonders, your opponent knows you need to move at least 18" so they will move close to force you to fly over them and not have any thing to shoot, in which case you just bomb them and watch them loose cross their fingers on the scatter roll.

Also Flicker Fields are a must! 10 points to never have to evade, why would you pass this over? Don't forget you can't even drop the bomb in evade mode because you can't snap shot blast weapons.

So in short, my opinion is if you are looking for AA void raven is the best we have (although the ADL + quad gun is really nice to for other reasons). Void Raven is also better at AT, and less likely to be useless due to the void mine.
But you won't win an Air Fight against a list full of heavy flyers, we're really only talking about AA in terms of your opponent bringing 1-3 flyers, not 6-9 flyers. And running no flyers is a prefectly viable solution (again in my opinion)
Back to top Go down
Nomic
Wych
Nomic


Posts : 559
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Finland

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 23 2012, 17:16

4 missile VR is too expensive, but with 2 it's around the same cost as the Chaos Dragon and Necron Doomscythe, which it's quite similar to. The av 11 helps a lot as volters can no longer glance it. Since you can't fire more than 2 missiles anyway, I think more aren't really necessary (it's primarily anti tank or ati flyer, the ability to blow up hordes is good to have but not the primary role).
With increased prevelance of large footslogging Marine units, I've considered using Razorwing with dissies. Venoms just don't cut it against multiple full squads of BA Assault Marines with feel no pain. However, I still consider flyers' primary role to be taking out other flyers, and a disse Razorwing would be pretty useless for that role.

_________________
Tougher than wet kittens, with armour stonger than the dampest cardboard, we are coming for you!
Kabal of Drowned Hope/Cult of the Fatal Kiss/Dark Labyrinth Coven.
Back to top Go down
helvexis
Sybarite
helvexis


Posts : 344
Join date : 2012-04-02
Location : Perth, Western Australia

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 25 2012, 01:38

I've been fielding a voidraven recently and I really enjoy it. The only reason I started taking it was someone uses a vulture with twin linked punisher Gatling cannon ... It does really bad things to everything dark eldar and I just needed a counter to it. But I'm also really enjoying it for its anti tank and the mine is always useful.

One day I will take it with 4 implosion missiles and destroy a deathstar but its hard to justify 230+ points on any single vehicle that's av11

I think with the razorwing I would keep it for infantry with dissies, and splinter cannon plus the standard missiles
But I haven't tried it out yet
Back to top Go down
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 25 2012, 20:57

Hmm so the general consensus is either an AI Razorwing or the Voidraven 175pt load out with 2 missiles and FF for AT and AA although the later being preferable as the main point of taking a flyer at all is to counter enemy fliers.
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
helvexis
Sybarite
helvexis


Posts : 344
Join date : 2012-04-02
Location : Perth, Western Australia

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 25 2012, 21:39

personally i dont even bother with the missiles for the voidraven but if the points are available yes!
Back to top Go down
colinsherlow
Hekatrix
colinsherlow


Posts : 1031
Join date : 2011-11-23
Location : Vancouver BC

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26 2012, 02:36

I prefer the void raven over the jetfighter in this addition. I take it with 2 shattershard missles and flicker fields if I have points to spare. the reasons I prefer it over the jetfighet is that you can only fire 2 missles a turn. so with the jetfigher it seems you will me concentrating more on AI than AT. with the the bomber is more for AT, But I always take 2 missles on each one. the bomber has been much better at taking out other flyers as well due to St9 lances. the extra strength has actually made a big difference.

I love the Void bombers now. plus the bomb can be quite nice sometimes.
I just posted my army list with two voidravens.

https://www.thedarkcity.net/t4789-2k-dark-eldar-w-eldar-allies-for-tshft-open


https://www.thedarkcity.net/t4673-2k-de-for-tshift-seattle

_________________
There are two things that I love. Kicking ass and chewing bubble gum... And I'm allllll out of bubble gum!
Back to top Go down
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 26 2012, 15:00

Cool. It seems my load out will either be the Void Raven and 2 Ravagers or just 3 Ravagers.
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
John M
Kabalite Warrior
John M


Posts : 217
Join date : 2013-03-17
Location : Aberystwyth

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 17 2013, 18:07

Voidraven does seems slightly expensive , will probably field a single razorwing, cheers for the in depth look.
Back to top Go down
DominicJ
Wych
avatar


Posts : 662
Join date : 2013-01-23

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 17 2013, 18:44

I'm trying a Razor with lances and 4 shatterfields.
The shatter missiles can do a bit of antitank (s7) and are as good or better against MEQs

_________________
The Cult of the bloody disaster
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t7466-cult-of-the-bloody-disaster
Back to top Go down
Nomic
Wych
Nomic


Posts : 559
Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Finland

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 17 2013, 20:55

Voidraven. The av11 helps a lot. Also Void Lances are btter than Dark Lances, and it isn't that much more expensive if you don't got crazy with the missiles (its main role is anti-tank or anti air). Personally I'd give it two missiles if I have the points (two is most you can shoot in a single turn anyway), giving you some alrge blasts to deal with hordes. But if you're short on points, it can be ran with no missiles at all, reducing it to the same cost as the Razorwing.

_________________
Tougher than wet kittens, with armour stonger than the dampest cardboard, we are coming for you!
Kabal of Drowned Hope/Cult of the Fatal Kiss/Dark Labyrinth Coven.
Back to top Go down
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18 2013, 11:41

The VR with two missiles seems to me the preferable replacement of a Ravager although I can't wait to see what the Eldar flyers are like. Could be our answer to AA whilst still having 3 Ravagers. Smile
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
Irakunar Thrax
Kabalite Warrior
avatar


Posts : 105
Join date : 2012-11-18
Location : Mymeara, beneath the snow.

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18 2013, 14:26

Voidraven with FF and 2 implosion missiles helps alot for an allround thing in case you meet all foot armies :-)
Back to top Go down
HERO
Hekatrix
HERO


Posts : 1057
Join date : 2012-04-13

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18 2013, 23:17

Honestly, I suggest the 175 point setup for the VR.
2x Shatterfield Missiles and Flickerfield. You need nothing else, really.

With the Razorwing, just go with Flickerfield and you're good to go. What you're buying with the VR is the S9 over 8 lances Smile

_________________
https://www.twitch.tv/lkhero
Back to top Go down
DominicJ
Wych
avatar


Posts : 662
Join date : 2013-01-23

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 23 2013, 12:45

The void mine is pretty nice too, as is A11, but , AP1 void lances at S9 would be "better" than just S9

_________________
The Cult of the bloody disaster
https://www.thedarkcity.net/t7466-cult-of-the-bloody-disaster
Back to top Go down
baster
Kabalite Warrior
baster


Posts : 126
Join date : 2012-10-21
Location : norfolk

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 23 2013, 20:31

I now take a VR over the Razorwing, i have used the bomb 3 times in the last 4 games and twice got direct hits, it works great. altho its only the small blast this could go wrong and miss wildly but the void lances work wonders. 3+ to hit 3+ to pen at worse +1 to dam table you just cant go back to razorwing. the difference ive found from razor to VR is when i roll to pen i generally get a 3 and a 4 ( the typical average roll) so instead of 1 glance with RW i know get a glance and a pen with the VR, and that can be all the difference in a game.
Back to top Go down
HERO
Hekatrix
HERO


Posts : 1057
Join date : 2012-04-13

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 23 2013, 21:12

Err, I don't know why this posted without finishing my paragraph , stupid phone.

I mean 3 times in 4 games where I don't blow up my own stuff!

_________________
https://www.twitch.tv/lkhero
Back to top Go down
Aschen
Sybarite
Aschen


Posts : 266
Join date : 2013-01-06

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 24 2013, 22:57

A bit off topic, but I think we should have had other ways of getting void lances without having to buy a flier for them..
Back to top Go down
Panic_Puppet
Wych
avatar


Posts : 506
Join date : 2012-12-30

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 25 2013, 00:24

I'm currently completely torn ahead of buying the last model for my 1500 point list. My original plan called for a pair of tri-lance ravagers with night shields and a razorwing with flickerfield. Now, however, I'm torn between going razor/ravager/ravager, or razor/raven/ravager (junking my throwaway 3-man reaver squad to get the extra points necessary). Is it ever worthwhile having the two fliers so as to not have to choose between the two? Or is it better to keep it to one and field two Ravagers instead?

_________________
Voidraven vs Razorwing TDxlYzL
Back to top Go down
HERO
Hekatrix
HERO


Posts : 1057
Join date : 2012-04-13

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 25 2013, 00:28

I would do 2:1 Ravager:Flier since you can always take the ADL + Quad-Gun if you need more AA.

_________________
https://www.twitch.tv/lkhero
Back to top Go down
baster
Kabalite Warrior
baster


Posts : 126
Join date : 2012-10-21
Location : norfolk

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 25 2013, 08:29

keep 1 and 2 ravagers, in my last game the VR only arrived turn 4, dont think we can afford 300+ points in a 1500 point game not to turn up until its all over. I field a VR now, and its easy to switch back to a RW if i want to which im not sure i will lol
Back to top Go down
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 25 2013, 12:00

@baster wrote:
keep 1 and 2 ravagers, in my last game the VR only arrived turn 4, dont think we can afford 300+ points in a 1500 point game not to turn up until its all over. I field a VR now, and its easy to switch back to a RW if i want to which im not sure i will lol

This is my big problem with fliers. Particularly if you have any negative modifiers to reserve rolls.
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
Rathstar
Hellion
avatar


Posts : 55
Join date : 2012-07-11
Location : UK

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 26 2013, 13:51


Towards the end of last year I was running a list with a Razorwing, Voidraven and a Quad gun. in some games it ruled the skies, and the 6 missiles between the fliers could decimate hordes. However with only one ravager I found the list did not have much early long range anti tank with only 1 ravager in the list. With little early long ranged anti tank I was almost forced to run my blasterborn and haywire toting wyches full speed towards the enemy, rather than being able to take a safer route to the enemy.

If you want to run 2 fliers I would make sure the rest of the list can compensate for the lack of turn 1 anti tank, such as a quad gun for basic str 7 shots, a few more raiders at the expense of venoms, and maybe even trueborn with dark lances rather than blasters. Alternatively you could play very agressive with trueborn with blasters and/or wyches with haywire, but having no option but to rush forward to deal with vehicles at very close range was causing my army issues. The quad gun was also causing issues in that in causes part of my army to be static.

I now play with a voidraven and 2 ravagers, and no quad gun. I'm in a worse position if I face multiple fliers, but the better long range anti tank has really helped the list.

If I wanted to have 2 fliers again I would ally in Eldar so I could have the Nightwing as the second flier while still having 2 ravagers.

Rathstar

_________________
______________________________________________________________________________
My Blog: http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/

The following quote is from around 6th edition, how have things changed Smile

@sweetbacon wrote:
You're spending 225 points on Wyches???

Wyches?!!

Why?  

Did someone threaten your family?  

Are you under duress right now?  

Blink if you are and I'll summon the authorities.
Back to top Go down
http://rathstarramblings.blogspot.co.uk/
mug7703
Sybarite
avatar


Posts : 409
Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 26 2013, 13:59

@Rathstar wrote:

Towards the end of last year I was running a list with a Razorwing, Voidraven and a Quad gun. in some games it ruled the skies, and the 6 missiles between the fliers could decimate hordes. However with only one ravager I found the list did not have much early long range anti tank with only 1 ravager in the list. With little early long ranged anti tank I was almost forced to run my blasterborn and haywire toting wyches full speed towards the enemy, rather than being able to take a safer route to the enemy.

If you want to run 2 fliers I would make sure the rest of the list can compensate for the lack of turn 1 anti tank, such as a quad gun for basic str 7 shots, a few more raiders at the expense of venoms, and maybe even trueborn with dark lances rather than blasters. Alternatively you could play very agressive with trueborn with blasters and/or wyches with haywire, but having no option but to rush forward to deal with vehicles at very close range was causing my army issues. The quad gun was also causing issues in that in causes part of my army to be static.

I now play with a voidraven and 2 ravagers, and no quad gun. I'm in a worse position if I face multiple fliers, but the better long range anti tank has really helped the list.

If I wanted to have 2 fliers again I would ally in Eldar so I could have the Nightwing as the second flier while still having 2 ravagers.

Rathstar

I agree with a lot of this. I never leave my house for a game with out at least 2 Ravagers. Generally 3. I've only run my flyer a couple of times. I think I'd only run the Void Raven as potential AA but if I do I'd get some allied Eldar with a Fire Prism or 3 War Walkers for some extra long range T1 AT.
Back to top Go down
http://www.trevelyanharper.co.uk
Sponsored content





Voidraven vs Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Voidraven vs Razorwing   Voidraven vs Razorwing I_icon_minitime

Back to top Go down
 
Voidraven vs Razorwing
Back to top 
Page 1 of 2Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
THE DARK CITY :: 

COMMORRAGH TACTICA

 :: Drukhari Tactics
-
Jump to: