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 FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.

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crion
Hellion
crion

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PostSubject: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 20 2012, 06:56

You know, every time I field my Reaper I can see my IG friend think "dammit".

The reaper is a hullstripper. One initial 36" S7 AP3 shot. Roll a D3, add that many Storm Vortex HW with 2-4 glancing aaand 5-6 penetrating rolls more. So if you hit and roll a 2 on the D3 you immediately "almost" wreck a 3HP vehicle. Now the penetrating on 5-6 is just icing on the cake.

If the reaper lives after armor is dead, you can fire a single Storm Vortex Haywire (penetrating 5-6) 24" S5 AP4 5" large blast with pinning.

To try it out, just proxy a raider with sails as a reaper if you have a good gaming buddy. And see what you think.

Could someone please mathammer the fw reaper because my practical experience with it is so far from the common advice (always take ravagers)?


Last edited by crion on Tue Nov 20 2012, 21:26; edited 2 times in total
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 20 2012, 18:33

Its a nice model, thats for sure, Im tempted to get one for christmas. However, 1 shot at bs4 turns me off. Sure its d3 haywire effects if it hits, but I can just imagine spending 135 points for a whiff or 1 haywire hit. Its a shame vehicles cant fire if they use aethersails, as it comes standard with them.
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crion
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 20 2012, 19:20

Well, potentially 1 S7 hit +3 HW hits with 2-4 glancing, 5-6 penetrating. Every turn.
Worst a whiff, sure. But for me it has been very killy, that's why I'm curious about mathammering it.


Last edited by crion on Tue Nov 20 2012, 21:16; edited 1 time in total
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 20 2012, 19:28

@crion wrote:
Well, potentially 1+3 HW hits with 2-4 glancing, 5-6 penetrating. Every turn.
Worst a whiff, sure. But for me it has been very killy, that's why I'm curious about mathammering it.

Are you sure its 1 +D3 HW hits? The way I read the rules its D3 HW hits.

From IA apoc 2nd edition "When the beam strikes a vehicle it takes D3 haywire rolls (as shown previously) Rather than the usual 1"

Also worth noting in this edition haywire is 1- nothing, 2-5 glance, 6- pen.
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crion
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 20 2012, 20:36

Reaper Storm Vortex HW is 5-6 penetrating according to IA sec Ed. It was always better than regular HW and ofcourse reflected in its price which is 30pts more expensive than a 3DL Ravager.

Edit: Double checked, 5-6 penetrating, 2-4 glancing. 1 S7 AP3 shot +D3 Storm Vortex HW. Edited to reflect this, but In other words, it's a Reaper. Twisted Evil
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 20 2012, 21:33

I don't have my book with me at the moment, but I do believe that it does now pen on 5-6.

However, I am with jb7090 on the number of hits. You get one S7 hit against non-vehicle targets, and against vehicles you get D3 Haywire hits instead of the single S7 one.

The Reaper is a great weapon and is a lot of fun to use, but it also dies very quickly once your opponents figure out what it does. What it needs is some sort of protective shroud produced by that whopping great generator sitting on it's deck, +1 to Jink or something like that.

That being said, I have a low-priority plan to convert two more and then field all three instead of Ravvies, just for fun.
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crion
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 20 2012, 21:49

1 S7 AP3 shot + D3 Kill shock Storm Vortex Haywire.

Storm Vortex *Contains* a HW that is why you still get the initial S7 or S5 in the two firing modes, THEN roll a D3 for the number of storm vortex haywire rolls for kill shock.
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 06:13

Im not sure about that.

As I read it, the hit happens and it's haywire. The vehicle takes d3 HW hits. If you hit a model with it, it counts as S7, insta death on a 5+ to wound.
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crion
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 06:58

Where does it read that you don't get the S7 hit if you hit a vehicle?
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Gobsmakked
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 08:12

My memory was wrong, I checked the IA book and it is as Crion says. It's been too long since I played with this toy Very Happy

As with Scourges, you resolve the regular (S7) hit first and then roll your Haywire hits.

Forge World wrote:
Haywire: If the Storm Vortex hits a vehicle, .... resolve its effects as normal, then roll a further D6. On a 2-4, it's a Glance, on a 5-6 it's a Pen, .... yah-dah, yah-dah.

Kill-shock: ..... when the concentrated beam strikes a vehicle it takes D3 haywire rolls (as shown previously) rather than the usual one. ......

So yes, resolve your S7 and then roll one haywire hit (for the blast shot) or D3 haywire hits (for the beam shot).
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 15:15

I stand corrected.

I think that changes my outlook on this dramatically.
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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 15:32

I own 1 and it has done nothing for me.

3+ to hit. you'd be amased at the 1s and 2s i manage to throw.

Then turn 2, they only have to destroy 1 weapon and it's worthless.

But.. as Gob I still want to field 3 instead of ravvies, just for funsies once. Very Happy

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crion
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 15:47

Did you use it in 6:th yet? Because of limited HP it got better..
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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 19:42

Obviously my point didn't come across. Smile

I bought it after 6th came out for the exact reason you state there.

I've played with it now and my 2 arguments still stand.

You only have 1 weapon. Throw a 1 or 2 to hit and it does nothing. Take a pen (which is not hard to have) and you have easily lost your only weapon or worse (wreck, explosion).

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crion
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 20:59

Well not even a ravager will save you against 1-2 rolls on hit. But you will atleast glance on 2+ with HW. I hope someone profficient in mathammer can tell us just how good or bad it is against armor 10-14 compared to a ravager.

One weapon is a clear drawback when it receives penetrating fire.
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Murkglow
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 21:12

@crion wrote:
Well not even a ravager will save you against 1-2 rolls on hit.

Except the ravager fires 3 times meaning if you do roll a 1-2 you still have two more shots. The reaper only has 1. That's the issue tlronin has with it. On average the ravager will hit twice a turn. The reaper will hit once a turn, missing entirely every third turn. Of a 6 turn game you're looking at 12 DL hits vs 4 reaper hits. That's a pretty big difference.

@crion wrote:
But you will atleast glance on 2+ with HW.

A ravager glances AV10 on a 2 and Pens on a 3+. Vs AV11 it's a glance on a 3, Pen on 4+. Vs AV12+ it's a glance on a 4 and pen on a 5+. And gets 3 chances to do so a turn. As I see the reaper as a very luck based vehicle. Hit alot and roll well on haywire and it's ok. Roll poorly or only 1 haywire hit and it's meh. Ravagers seem to give a bit more consistency. Maybe the mathhammer will show otherwise but I'm not really seeing much of a draw just yet.
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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice.   FW Reaper, a killy Heavy choice. I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 21 2012, 21:48

My biggest problem with it is the one shot. If it was twin linked, even at BS3 I'd seriously consider it.
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