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 Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 10 2012, 15:14

So I played a 1000point game against IG and was murdered horribly. What sort of list and tactics would you use against this? I'm not thinking tailored list but I think mine could have been improved a lot.


The guard list was something like this:

CCS w/Regimental Standard

Storm troopers w/F, MG

PCS w/4xF, Chimera

Infantry Squad w/AC, GL
Infantry Squad w/AC, GL

Special Weapons Team w/3xF (In a Valkyrie)

Veteran Squad w/3xMG, Chimera

2 Scout Sentinels w/AC

Leman Russ w/HB Sponsons

This was almost his list. It's lacking a few upgrades that I can't remember as it came in at 80pts short.



Here is the list I used:

Haemonculi w/SS - 65pts

4 Incubi w/Raider w/Dissie - 148pts

8 wyches, Hekatrix w/Agon. Raider w/Dissie - 170pts

5 Warriors. Venom w/2xSC - 110pts
5 Warriors. Venom w/2xSC - 110pts

Ravager w/NS - 115pts
Ravager w/NS - 115pts

Razorwing w/FF - 155pts

This comes in at 988pts so I'm not sure where I put the other 10 pt upgrade. I have a feeling it was wasted on a SC for the Razorwing but it might have been to give me a Klaivex in the Incubi. Either way this list is quite awful. I should have had blasters in the warrior squads, DLs on the Raiders and HWGs on the wyches just for starters. I know Incubi aren't really great against IG but I didn't know what army he was using, it could have been BA but either way I don't like the idea of fielding them without a PGL Archon now.

Other than the list, two other factors lost me the game horribly. I mean horribly. I lost everything but my Razorwing, a Venom and 1 Incubi. First was the lack of terrain on my friend's board. I can't help but feel it was a little on the sparse side and was set up 'thematically'. Second was my deployment blunder/horrendously bad luck. With exception of the Razorwing of course I deployed my whole army behind the only viable piece of terrain on my side of the board. There was another but it wasn't LoS blocking and was very near a lot of his army. I deployed second but failed to seize and it was night fight T1. Because of this, and the fact that my vehicles would get a 2+ save from shroud, stealth and being behind cover. To that end all my vehicles were bunched together. I got shot by the battle cannon from the Leman Russ on the first turn and the blast hit 4 vehicles. I failed 3 of the 4 2+ saves so I was crippled. I still had one Ravager but on my turn that failed to do anything against his Leman Russ and with 2 transports down I was a bit crippled and couldn't even take out his Chimeras on my side of the board.

How would you fight another battle against this list and with what sort of DE list?
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Archon Bruce
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 10 2012, 16:08

Well, i think you have a pretty good idea of where you went wrong. When you are facing any army that has high strength large blast, you want to spread your forces out. You are pretty spot on with the blasters and haywire needs. On first turn, you need to turbo across the board. Concentrate your fire on the command squad or the heavy weapon squad until they are gone. Your army comp isnt bad, although you may want to add a wrack squad. I had a 10 man wrack squad chew through a 40 man guard blob behind an aegis in 2 turns at Beakycon. Others disagree with me, but I've had great success with them.
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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 10 2012, 16:19

Yea wracks can be nice. I only own 5 for PT shenanigans with Hellions but I'd like to get 5 more eventually. If only to try the S4 Huskblade of doom unit with them Very Happy. The list I'm now using is better I feel. I haven't yet faced IG with it though but I think it'll fare a lot better. 12 lances across different units. I like that every unit has a way of taking down vehicles. Click below to see it:

Spoiler:
 
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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 10 2012, 22:20

I'm not a fan of using incubi, but if you put the Baron with them they have hit and run stealth, grenades and you get + 1 to go first. Beasts are great against IG as are grots with haemy.

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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11 2012, 09:50

I've used Incubi twice ever and both times they didn't even make it to assault. My fault obviously but still.....

Haywire Wyches are good, Beasts, and as you say Blasters are all handy. If you go 2nd its pretty much good night nurse, esp if terrain is thin. As for a tactic, Just focus firing on 1 or 2 units at a time. Work out some math hammer and figure out how many Dark Lance and Blasters does it take to destroy his Russ.

As mentioned above Grots are an option - they can take a pounding but dish it out well too. Shame that you can only squeeze 4 in a Raider - take an Archon with a Haywire Grenade, just for that bit extra - esp as he's 2's to hit, 2's to glance when within 8"

EDIT: Just thinking further about this, Wracks, statistically, work out well vs Guard with their poisoned reroll to wound against the guardsmen T3, should get around 10 wounds on 'em....

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11 2012, 13:40

Yea I hadn't really considered Wracks before. I'd need to get some more to use them. I think the terrain thing is a problem though. We're going to make some more terrain for his board as it's a bit stupid to have no LOS blocking terrain. Games will be a bit fairer then I think.

What do you guys think of the revised list with the Reavers (persuaded by Mushkilla's reports and articles). It's my new all-comers list although I think it'll be better than the previous one against his army.
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Archon Bruce
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11 2012, 14:09

I can tell you that I tried Mushkilla's Reaver load out, and it is fantastic. So good in fact that i'm now farming my local gamestore tourneys for free models, as I win every outing.
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crion
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 06:23

Skip the "thematically" sparse terrainboard. And do the regular 6:th Ed deployment of terrain. I find myself having less of a disadvantage that way. My friend also play IG and did the same sparse, no terrain in middle just the sides. It's what I call an "IG shooting range" terrain board.
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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 13 2012, 17:40

@Archon Bruce wrote:
I can tell you that I tried Mushkilla's Reaver load out, and it is fantastic. So good in fact that i'm now farming my local gamestore tourneys for free models, as I win every outing.

Yea he makes a very persuasive argument for them. I also like his argument for including a Succubus instead of a bunch of wyches if you have a spare HQ choice as she's more effective than her points in wyches. With this in mind for that 1,000 point list shown above I've removed 3 wyches, 2 night shields and downgraded the agoniser on the Hekatrix to get a Succubus with venom blade.

@crion wrote:
Skip the "thematically" sparse terrainboard. And do the regular 6:th Ed deployment of terrain. I find myself having less of a disadvantage that way. My friend also play IG and did the same sparse, no terrain in middle just the sides. It's what I call an "IG shooting range" terrain board.

Shooting range sums it up! It's inspired me to make some DE terrain to bring to our games. Speaking of which, where would be the appropriate place on this forum to have a fun thread showing the development of a DE based terrain project?
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Dogmar
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 13 2012, 17:48

If you're into building terrain you can open a thread in the "Distractions" forum in the Painting and Modelling section.

Unfortunately I've never played against IG (or luckily idk), but no matter which opponent you fight, few LOS blocking terrain pieces are never a good thing for DE. For fighting lots of tanks haywire wyches tend to work very well (if you find enough cover to get them there). I haven't found a reliable way to deal with their flyers though. They easily destroy ours so you'd need to gamble with a RW. I don't like aegis lines thematically - not too fitting for DE. This means either ignore them, bait them with something right in front of them so they'd have to hover to deal with it or just wait for them to go into hover anyway, because the IG flyers want to deploy the unit hiding inside which requires them to hover.
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Flayed_Heart_Kabal
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 13 2012, 23:57

Honestly, that's a pretty bad Guard list. I'd say your list is relatively good, just need more lance weapons. Also, Never ever ever bunch up with DE vehicles. You get a couple blown up, and the guys inside start to suffer too from explosions, and large blasts kill you. My 1k list I used in a local tournament recently (Which i won) was Haemonculus, 9 Wyches with haywires, hekatrix, and raider with FF, 3x 5 warriors with blaster in venom with 2 scannons, 2 flickerfield ravagers and a Voidraven with a flickerfield. I basically tabled the first two people I played (pod nids and stormraven blood angels), and did table a guard player final round, who had a list almost perfect for beating DE haha. It's really not that hard to win with DE versus guard if you know what you're doing, I myself am undefeated versus guard in 6th, and I play against some pretty good players. It's just a matter of not letting them get the jump on you, which usually means taking first turn and/or hoping for nightfight, and if that fails hide what you can, reserve what you can't. I'd say, with the knowledge you have now, and with better terrain, you would be able to beat that IG list no problemo.

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 14 2012, 02:58

Yea I agree about the not bunching up. I like people's comments about including wracks against IG and it makes for a cheaper Heamonculi retinue which is better for 1k point games.

On a second review I think I might try this list against him next time:

Haemonculi w/LFG, VB - 65pts

5 Wracks w/LFG. Raider - 120pts

5 Warriors w/B. Venom w/2xSC, NS - 125pts
5 Warriors w/B. Venom w/2xSC, NS - 125pts

9 Reavers w/3xHL, Champ w/VB - 249pts

Ravager w/3xDL, NS - 105pts
Ravager w/3xDL, NS - 105pts
Ravager w/3xDL, NS - 105pts

= 999pts

This list has Wracks instead of Wyches which will perform just as well against guard in CC. No assault grenades though Sad But I'm hoping they can't kill many before I get to strike back if I'm striking through cover. They lose the AT tank ability of Wyches but I have a whole extra Ravager which provides long range AT.
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Flayed_Heart_Kabal
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 14 2012, 04:16

That's pretty good, i think you are paying 10 points too few on the ravagers and venoms though. I would say drop the wracks down to 4, and drop the liquifier, and put them in a venom instead. Other than that, not bad. Also, drop the Night Shields, against guard you want to get close anyway.

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 17 2012, 17:40

@Flayed_Heart_Kabal wrote:
That's pretty good, i think you are paying 10 points too few on the ravagers and venoms though. I would say drop the wracks down to 4, and drop the liquifier, and put them in a venom instead. Other than that, not bad. Also, drop the Night Shields, against guard you want to get close anyway.

Yes sorry, I had dropped all Night Shields in the list but forgot to amend that. The point totals don't include them so it works out fine. I think another Venom would be better but I only own two so it'll have to do for the mo. I think it'll work well though. With that in mind there seems to be no point in dropping the Wracks down and losing a LFG. I can't think of where I'd put the points and two LFGs can be quite nasty.
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PostSubject: Re: Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!!   Destroyed by Imperial Guard list. Help!! I_icon_minitime

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