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bleum937
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PostSubject: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 02:25

Lately I've been intrigued by running the Duke in my army, and I wanted to use him with a really shooty squad in a Raider to fly around tearing things apart. Twisted Evil I riddled out some mathhammer based on a few common squads: I chose warriors (both with and without splinter racks for comparison) and trueborn with shardcarbines. I tested the effectiveness of adding the duke to each of these squads. Also there's the difference between rapid-fire range vs outside rapid-fire range. Thought this might be useful to some people here. Smile

Duke/splinter mathhammer Oimg?key=0Aqr5oDVEBWlPdDgwNWQ1RW1RZDRTU2Q5cmZONG81UkE&oid=1&zx=svozxfmlmxyi

SR means Splinter Rifle, SC means Splinter Cannon, ShC means Shardcarbine, Rack is Splinter Racks, and TSV is The Serpent's Venom, ie Sliscus' special rule that gives Poisoned (3+).

As you'd expect the Trueborn with the Duke have the highest damage output, but they're also the most expensive. On the other hand, the warriors with splinter racks are almost as effective in rapid fire range and have a big points break compared to the Trueborn, so they could be useful in tandem with an assault unit so the risk of return fire is removed by the assault.

What has been more effective for you? I'm more inclined to go with the warriors for effectiveness, but the Trueborn are quite fluffy. Very Happy

EDIT: Added more options to chart

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Last edited by bleum937 on Tue Nov 06 2012, 01:35; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Added more options to chart)
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 03:49

Another important note is that the Duke actually doesn't boost Shardcarbine Trueborn that much.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 10:17

@Thor665 wrote:
Another important note is that the Duke actually doesn't boost Shardcarbine Trueborn that much.

How so? They still get 3+ to wound right?
This is very interesting info but could you do a summary of the points per wound then we'd know which one is objectively best.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 10:40

I would always go for the Warriors. 24" range compared to 18" range is a big deal, especially when you factor in Night Shields.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 11:19

Can you add another option? I run them with Sliscus and just 9 rifles, would be interested in how that pans out.

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bleum937
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 15:56

I knew Sky Serpent would be interested in this! Laughing

Updated with a few more options, I also removed the 8SR+SC+TSV entry as it's not Codex-legal. Embarassed

It's interesting to note that adding splinter cannons to splinterborn is a waste of time. Makes sense really, going from assault 3 to assault 4 isn't very exciting. Razz

@mug7703 wrote:
This is very interesting info but could you do a summary of the points per wound then we'd know which one is objectively best.
I'm a bit sceptical of the value of points per wound, but I'll calculate it if I get time tomorrow if you like.

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Last edited by bleum937 on Tue Nov 06 2012, 01:36; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Moved new chart to first post)
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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 16:36

18+2SC is another option, one that I have been enjoying.

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jb7090
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 20:15

You have to look at how much you PAY for those wounds, though.

Duke, 7 shardcarbies, 2 splinter cannons, raider with splinter racks is almost 400 points. Break it down by point cost per wound and then you have the true worth.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 22:40

What is TSV?
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Mudpuppet
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 05 2012, 22:56

@Nid Vicious wrote:
What is TSV?

I believe an acronym for The Serpents Venom, a special rule belonging to Duke Sliscus.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 06 2012, 02:23

I will sometimes run a squad of 15 to 20 warriors (with SC) and camp them in cover so they can hold an objective. Start the duke with them and have him immediatly join a CC unit (say wyches in a raider or Incubi in a venom). They almost always end up still there at the end of the game holding wherever I put them. And if they can overwatch another objective, you can make life miserable for the opponent as he tries to take it.

Nothing says hello like a building full of 3+ poision raining down on you.

Otherwise I like 9 in a raider-or 10 sitting outside the raider that load up first turn as the duke goes CC somewhere else.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 06 2012, 03:25

Yeah u have to factor in the cost of fielding these units and compare that way. Looking for that happy medium of cost efficiency vs damage output

I can tell you now that 3 units of 5 Warriors in Venoms, Dual Cannons (no Blaster) is cheaper and more pts efficient that 2 units of 10 Warrior with Splinter Racks, also when firing at all 3 ranges (36", 24" and 12") but adding in the Duke to 1 of those.......haven't done the costing yet

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baster
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 06 2012, 10:00

i wouldnt use duke if i can only attach him to a 5 KW squad, and still ave to start em on the ground and load em up in T1, expensive buff for just 5 warriors, granted duke is a CC machine and worth taking if you run wychs just for the extra die on CD roll, seeing loads of foot slogging army lists apearing now, which is reducing the effectiveness of my wychs......in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 06 2012, 10:38

@baster wrote:
seeing loads of foot slogging army lists apearing now, which is reducing the effectiveness of my wychs......in my opinion.

Yeah, Overwatch hurts but if you chuck Duke in there first, he can absorb the Overwatch to allow the Wyches to run in behind him. He's also pretty good vs high T stuff, 2"s To Wound and 2++ on the return.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 06 2012, 13:09

I still like the idea of the Duke and 20 warriors with SCs behind an ADL. Add a farseer in for psychic denial and super guide and you're laughing...add 3 wracks nearby for the Duke to start with and steal their PT thus giving the 20 warriors FNP and the enemy is crying. It'll be quite hard to shift that blob from the objective they're sitting on. Especially if you get to fire OW at BS because of the farseer Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 06 2012, 14:08

@mug7703 wrote:
I still like the idea of the Duke and 20 warriors with SCs behind an ADL. Add a farseer in for psychic denial and super guide and you're laughing...add 3 wracks nearby for the Duke to start with and steal their PT thus giving the 20 warriors FNP and the enemy is crying. It'll be quite hard to shift that blob from the objective they're sitting on. Especially if you get to fire OW at BS because of the farseer Smile

You couldn't start the Duke with the Wracks as he needs to deploy with Warriors or Trueborn.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 06 2012, 19:52

I suppose you could start him with the warriors, leave and join the Wracks, leave again taking the pain token with you, go back to the warriors giving them the token. Then he can leave again and actually go do something... Of course that sounds pretty Rolling Eyes to me and might take multiple turns, so I wouldn't recommend it.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 11 2012, 22:00

I just have to say that Sliscus + 18 SR + 2 SC + Eldrad (divination) + aegis = a ridiculously good unit. I blob them on my home objective and they mince anything that comes close when combined with prescience and misfortune.

If people try to ignore them, then you have effectively carved out a 48 inch diameter out of the battlefield.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 10:14

@ramtastic wrote:
I just have to say that Sliscus + 18 SR + 2 SC + Eldrad (divination) + aegis = a ridiculously good unit. I blob them on my home objective and they mince anything that comes close when combined with prescience and misfortune.

A quick mathhammer on that unit at 24" is 9.87 MEQ kills with Presience and Misfortune from Eldrad. At 12" it's 15.8 dead MEQ. Which is pretty damn nasty! With Eldrad you also have a pretty good chance of getting the ability that lets you shoot Overwatch at full Bs, which would certainly deter anything that gets close from assaulting.

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 13:58

Are you using the heresy calculator for that or paper and pencil?
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 14:01

Paper and pencil. So it's entirely posiible that I'm wrong!

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PostSubject: Re: Duke/splinter mathhammer   Duke/splinter mathhammer I_icon_minitimeMon Nov 12 2012, 14:39

No I think youre right, I dont see an option to "re-roll armor saves" on the heresy calculator so the numbers I got were lower.
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