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 Jink and Reavers

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PaulT
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PostSubject: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 27 2012, 22:56

Hi all do Reavers get the Jink special rule, they have skilled riders which gives +1 to the Jink but I can find if they actually get jink. Thanks pirat
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Tony Spectacular
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 27 2012, 23:33

Yep. All skimmers and jetbikes get Jink.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 27 2012, 23:34

Special rules for jetbikes are shown on page 45 of the rulebook.

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 27 2012, 23:52

Count got it.

They need to move to get Jink, then +1 due to Skilled Rider

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 00:16

gets even better when they turboboost Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 03:21

Thanks, Turbo boost doesn't give a better jink save does it? Thats 36 inches hey? that's fast indeed and in that mode is when they can use their Bladevanes right? and its just a matter of flying over the heads of an enemy unit? The rules say something like pick a model in the unit and trace a line then pick and end point etc. Why not just say turbo boost over a unit to inflict wounds with the bladevanes.....
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 09:38

yes turboboost gives a better jink save. 4+ skilled rider adds +1. YAY!

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 10:45

So thats a 3+ save when turbo boosting?
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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 12:22

@PaulT wrote:
So thats a 3+ save when turbo boosting?
Yes, it definitely is.

@PaulT wrote:
...The rules say something like pick a model in the unit and trace a line then pick and end point etc. Why not just say turbo boost over a unit to inflict wounds with the bladevanes.....
The problem is, that the rule and faq are worded in a way, that it doesn't matter, if you actually went over a unit. It just has to be under a line between one model's starting point and one model's end point.
You could fly around a unit, as long as it is under the line, it can be hit, but you can go over a unit and if it is not under the line, it can't.

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PaulT
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 12:41

Oh Im not quite sure what you mean, so you're saying it doesn't have to be a straight line, it can be curved as long as an enemy unit is under the flight path? How can you go over a unit and it not be under the line, the "line" being the flight path of the reaver right?
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 12:54

No, the other way round. The Reavers can fly a curve, but the target unit has to be under the line. So, if you fly a curve around a unit, you could still target it, but if you flew a curve to go over a certain unit, you can't target it.
It also makes it a little bit harder to get them out of LOS, because you have to plan ahead, how to move and still get the target under the line.

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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 28 2012, 15:10

Well this will teach me to read the rule book. Skilled rider huh!? Thnks guys.

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 29 2012, 15:00

Technically speaking a line and a curve are different things as there is not such thing as a line that isn't straight, I would not suggested trying to bladevane in a circle as you would probably be rulled againsts

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 29 2012, 15:31

@Seshiru wrote:
Technically speaking a line and a curve are different things as there is not such thing as a line that isn't straight, I would not suggested trying to bladevane in a circle as you would probably be rulled againsts

I beg to differ. There is no requirement for a line to be straight. Indeed "straight line" is a common term and if there was such a requirement then the first half of that term would be redundant.

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 29 2012, 16:52

Mathematically speaking by definition a line is always straight. If it's not it's a curve.

Not that is matters as how reavers are supposed to be used is cleared up in the FAQ.


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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 01:17

Thank god I'll need some more weeks to finish my Reavers, so I can refresh my memories of analytic geometry before fielding them.

But I still wonder, why it was important to add 'straight' to the description of the Vibro Cannon in the Eldar codex, while this word is never used in the Reavers paragraph.
Come to think of it, the faq doesn't tell us anything about tracing the line, it just asks and answers, how to mark a start and an end point for a unit of multiple models.

I may be confused here, because I'm no native speaker and so can't argue about the refined distinctions between lines and straight lines. If I understood it correctly these terms are interchangeable in mathematics, at least in English, in German they are not.

In German we have a strip (Linie), an unbroken conglomeration of dots, forming a strip of exactly one dot's width, that may or may not be straight. (In mathematics this is equivalent to a curve, since a curve can be straight and a line can be curved, sounds stupid, I know.)
Then we have a (straight) line (Gerade), that adds the special condition, that it has to be straight, obviously. But one very important aspect is, that it has no beginning or end, which, correct me if I'm wrong, seems to be true for English lines, too.
And finally we have the line segment (Strecke) that follows all the rules of a line, but it only spans between to points, having an actual beginning and end.

So, applying these mathematical terms, wouldn't we need to trace a line segment, to follow the Reavers' path, because a line (by mathematical definition) can cross a point, but neither originate or end there?

I don't really care about this case, because we use a house rule in our FLGS, that allows curves. (and also allows to allocate wounds to the front, but that is a different matter)
But it always bugged me, that neither the rule, nor the faq make it really clear what is meant, neither in the English, nor the German version.

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 04:57

Really? Do your guys not know the "common word usage" of "Line". In math yes a line is straight, the word line can refer to a length of rope, a pipe, a boundary, something drawn with a writing instrument, A material use for measuring and leveling, a horizontal row of printed letters, or a long narrow mark. Note: these were all taken from the Merriam-Webster dictionary. As you can see in the common usage some of these things are straight, curved, or both. Hence why we use Straight line. To cut down on misunderstanding.

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 06:13

It doesn't get more clearer than this:

Q: How do you mark the start and end points of a unit of unit of
Reavers move when they are using their special Bladevanes attack?
(p29)
A: Should confusion arise, simply pick any model in the unit as
the start point and mark that spot. Then move the unit and
pick any model as the end point. One unengaged, non-vehicle
unit under the line between the two markers can then be
chosen to be the target of the attack.

The a unit under the line between the two markers, i.e between to points A and B, it's "straight".

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 07:42

I still don't quite get it, oh all that dialogue about lines was interesting but in regards to the above Q&A, pick a model? one of the reavers? then move the unit and pick any model as the end point, another reaver? why all this "pick a model start and end points" ??? So I have my unit of Reavers I turbo boost over a unit of space marines, 36 inches straight over their stocky little bodies, is that the attack??? you just turbo boost over their heads?

Also night shields cuts down enemy ranged fire by 6 inches, what about if the enemy weapon is closer than its maximum range? like if its 8 or 9 inches away???
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 09:09

I think GW has complicated matters unneccessarily (again). When I move my Reavers I just curve my tape measure to describe the course that they are taking. As long as I'm moving no more than the maximum amount that is allowed (36") then nobody has ever objected and it's simple to say that they are bladevaning Unit X as they pass over.

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 10:53

@Count Adhemar wrote:
I think GW has complicated matters unneccessarily (again). When I move my Reavers I just curve my tape measure to describe the course that they are taking. As long as I'm moving no more than the maximum amount that is allowed (36") then nobody has ever objected and it's simple to say that they are bladevaning Unit X as they pass over.

But that should not work. You can´t go in a curve and bladevane the unit. I´ll try to pict it with letters.

rs = Reaver Unit starting point of movement
re = Reaver Unit ending point of movement
e= Enemy

scenario 1:

rs re

e

If you are flying a curve over the enemy unit, the line between starting and ending point does not go over the enemy unit. So you are not allowed to attack them.

scenario 2:

rs

e

re

If you draw a line between starting and ending point, the enemy unit lies beneath it. So you are allowed to attack. This would be also allowed, if you fly a curve which never went over the enemy unit.

This makes no sense. But I think this is RAW.

Michael

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 11:04

I know it doesn't fit in with the stupid way that GW did it but, as I said above, nobody has ever had a problem with the way I do it. Okay, in a tournament players might get more picky but I would simply ask beforehand and if they have a problem I'd do it the "correct" way.

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeFri Nov 02 2012, 20:33

I do my best to just go as straight as possible. I use the shortest distance philosophy so it keeps things nice and simple. The fact that we can even go thru ruins to do this is great. Also being able to stop in cover without testing is really good, 2+ cover in ruins!!

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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 03 2012, 06:20

So turbo boosting with reavers 3+ cover save. In the enemy turn if he shoots and then assault reavers, 3+ will be the reavers save against shooting and 5+ in the enemy assault/cc turn?
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PostSubject: Re: Jink and Reavers   Jink and Reavers I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 03 2012, 11:36

@crion wrote:
So turbo boosting with reavers 3+ cover save. In the enemy turn if he shoots and then assault reavers, 3+ will be the reavers save against shooting and 5+ in the enemy assault/cc turn?

And a 4++ invulnerable if you get lucky on the Divination table with a Farseer in the unit Smile
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