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 How do DE beat necrons?

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THeWigglyNoodle
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PostSubject: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 02:42

A friend of mine plays necrons every time i play him he wipes me off the board. Can you help me fellow archons?


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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 03:09

I'm not too familiar with the Dark Angels codex, so... Wink

What is your list?
What is his list?

What do you think is your biggest problem beating him? (does he kill you too quick, can you not kill his infantry/his mech, do you have problems with objectives, or are you getting tabled? All of the above?)

The more info you can give us the better the info we give you will be.

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Zaakath
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 04:11

General lists used by you and him; and what you have available will help.
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Skulnbonz
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 13:35

Venoms and blasters.
Also, a unit of 4 razorwing flocks and 10 khymerae will wash necrons on foot right off the board!

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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 18:45

Until you tell us more about your army and your friend's one, let me guess...

2 ways (IMHO) through which a DE can be doomed against necrons...

1) You play exclusively shooty against them (WRONG! Khârn doesn't approve this! ;P @Thor)

2) Your friend plays the Necron Flying Circus (like 9 flyers) and you have no flyers.... (Suddenly Ravagers are not the most viable HS slot... I TOLD YOU!!!! Well, in fact I didn't... I bought 2 of them in 5th :s)

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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 21:24

A sample list of his can be a great help since there are a lot of options he may or may not be taking.

Night shields are a must on all your vehicles since his basic troops can glance you to death with 6's.
A lot of his units might look scary but can be handled but out maneuvering him particularly Monoliths and Immortal's Squads.

The biggest thing to remember is an HQ can't stand back up if there is no space to do so within 3" of where it died. Swarm the area with something and spread out so that there is no space in that 3" that is not within 1" of any of your models and you have yourself a permanent kill.


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Archon Thorne
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 21:31

Please feel free to (dis)agree:

Kill the wraiths first. They will rip up our raiders/venoms and eat anyone inside. They also move at a fair clip and are quite tough (sporting a 3++).

If he uses 20 blobs of warriors with rez orbs, ignore them until the end of the game. Should be simple enough to avoid them. Then hit them with everything at once (Incubi or beasts), make them fail a LD test and sweep them because otherwise they just don't go away.

Quantum shielding doesn't really make a difference to us. Almost everything is open-topped too so they shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Give a big haywire hello to the monolith.

If you're up against Cronair then try to table him in the first turn. Most likely he will only have a squad or two on the table and if you kill them then you win! Even if you don't, you should be very close to your opponent's board edge meaning his fliers will move over you!

Thoughts?

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THeWigglyNoodle
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 24 2012, 23:52

My friend usually runs lots of warriors with his lords behind with rez orbs he also has 2 flyers and he takes a few destroyers
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 02:52

If they are Warrior blobs then as Thorne said just out maneuver them until everything else is dead.
Quad-guns are great especially if he only has a few flyers.
Otherwise just dart around the table keeping the warriors at range with NS's and throw all your focus at the destroyers. Nail them hard and early so you can turn your attention to the fliers when they arrive.

If he is bringing the warriors in Ghost arcs or in flyers then knock out the GA's turn one if you can and follow the above Strat.
If its flyers for some and other foot slogging for the rest then ignore the small flyer units unless they get deployed right next to your HQ Raider or Ravagers.

The biggest mistake against a foot list with Res Orbs would be to charge them, particularly without terrain and grenades to back you up.
You have the range and speed advantage over them and that is what you need to abuse to win.

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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 06:35

I just run my normal Venomspam list and shoot what I got at him Wink then sweep the remaining crap up with my beastmaster group...

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THeWigglyNoodle
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 07:35

@Darklight wrote:
I just run my normal Venomspam list and shoot what I got at him Wink then sweep the remaining crap up with my beastmaster group...
what would be a good beastmaster unit?
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 07:36

I run; 3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymera and 4 Razorwing flock. Also run Baron Sathonyx with them

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 10:19

@Darklight wrote:
I run; 3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymera and 4 Razorwing flock. Also run Baron Sathonyx with them

That's a really nice budget HQ and retinue. 231pts. Isn't there a tactica somewhere on using beastmasters? Could someone direct me to it please?
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kenny3760
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 11:07

The beast pack unit shown with the Baron comes to 261 points. I've had a lot of success with 4 BM's 10 Khymera and 4 flocks also with the Baron. Its expensive at 331 points but it can soak up an incredible amount of firepower and hits like a ton of bricks when it gets there.
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Darklight
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 11:34

@kenny3760 wrote:
The beast pack unit shown with the Baron comes to 261 points. I've had a lot of success with 4 BM's 10 Khymera and 4 flocks also with the Baron. Its expensive at 331 points but it can soak up an incredible amount of firepower and hits like a ton of bricks when it gets there.

Well now in 6th ed its just placing the baron in front and soak up the shots... its just my dicing unlucky crap that ruins everything :p

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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 12:18

Putting the Baron up front is not worth it. If he goes they lose stealth, hit and run, and grenades. Much better to soak up wounds on your Khymera or if you can get away with it let a flock take 4 for you.
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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 13:43

Put your beastmasters in the front (they're characters) and use them to distribute wounds as desired (S6+ to khymerae and the rest to the birdies. With 4+ LOS! they'll die quickly, but the Baron already gives you a good Leadership, so not that it hurts.


Now if you want to erase those necron troops from the battlefield I recommend doing it quickly and doing it well, because these guys are the ones that win the game for your opponent (except in Purge the Alien mission).

Your vehicles should stay away from his Gauss weaponry like you're fleeing from the plague. Even 5 warriors can wreck a venom in 1 shot, so don't give them a chance. You shouldn't be at 18" from this units at the end of your turn, unless you're charging them at that time. This way, only Splinter Cannons and other heavy weapons are able to shoot at them, and so your only damage come from your vehicles, and a couple of kabalites (SC trueborn or warrior).

On the other hand, he has destroyers... moving 12" and shooting down both your vehicles and your troops at desire. This units are your first threat, because they cancel one of your main advantages: mobility. Solution? Erase them. In the first turns, stay away from his army (even at your own deployment zone). The Necrons lack long range shooting (but they excel at mid range) and if you add Night Shields to the mix then no more threat at this point. Once you control this you can take the initiative of the battle....
Now, if you want to kill those Destroyers, wait for them... or give them bait so they'll go where you want. For example, disembark a troop unit and sit on cover, better close to an objective (this way you are setting the trap but covering it). Then they'll come and shoot you... you'll go to ground for a better save, and in your turn dinner is served.

Maybe he is clever enough to ignore this kind of bait with his destroyers, so here's another trick: use lances! I know, if you put yourself at 36" or less, he'll shoot you with his Flying Robots, but you can kill him first, or at least by target saturation his Destroyers won't get the chance to kill more than 1 vehicle per turn. Remember that if one unit goes completely down in one phase (shooting or assault), they won't reanimate, so concentrate fire in one unit until is finished.. be sure you can dedicate enough shots to them. If average rolls are made, 6 to 7 lance shots can take down 3 destroyers easily (if you consider a 5+ cover save).

Once you have destroyed the Destroyers, its your chance to decimate and take down the troop MEQ robots... shoot and CHARGE them, make them flee from combat, and your Initiative will finish the job. Incubi are perfect to win these combats, too much wounds is not an issue with Necrons, even grenades are not that necessary. Just remember, make a sacrificial assault first to overcome defensive shooting. Maybe heamonculi, or 3 wracks units.


I hope it helps. Sorry for making it long.

P.D. REMEMBER! Necrons: excellent mid-range shots (more than DE) and bad mobility (except for Destroyers and flyers). So kill the Destroyers, ignore the flyers or kill them with yours, and stay either at long range or in combat. Win combat, and they're done.

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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 25 2012, 21:49

@Eldur wrote:
Once you have destroyed the Destroyers, its your chance to decimate and take down the troop MEQ robots... shoot and CHARGE them, make them flee from combat, and your Initiative will finish the job. Incubi are perfect to win these combats, too much wounds is not an issue with Necrons, even grenades are not that necessary. Just remember, make a sacrificial assault first to overcome defensive shooting. Maybe heamonculi, or 3 wracks units.

Keep in mind that even the basic Necron has excellent Ld. You can't always count on forcing them to run.
Sacrificial units on a charge are great but better when teamed up with the follow up unit. Charge a unit of wyches with PGL through your Incubi from close range. They get cover from the Incubi and Stealth from PGL for a 4+ Cover on Overwatch. If you can get the FNP then you are very unlikely to have to lose any Wyches and your Incubi are then free to follow in.

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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 26 2012, 07:06

As both a DE and necron player I think I can help.
Although necrons will always hit last in combat they have rapidfire weapons so imo charging a large blob with wyches is wrong.

Field those dark lances and blasters to take out the quantum shielding and then wreck the arks/ barges. This can be annoying as they have a lot of Hull points. Be cautious of blasters however. In order to be in range you will enter very close to rapid fire from gauss which will destroy your vehicles. If you do I cant stress enough the importance of Focus firing. Focus fire the arks then squads to eliminate all so they get no res protocol.

Arks 1st, barges 2nd, warriors last in terms of priorities. Dakka those warriors with liquifiers and splinter weapons. also take ap4 or better weapons to ignore warrior saves.

Annihilation Barges are very devastating to you if you play your vehicles close to each other.

Lastly remember that all necron vehicles are open-topped so use that to pop them easily.

Roll on strategic for an additional chance for Nightfight and aim to kill the transports. stay away from mind shackle scarab/ warscythe lords if possible.

Hope this helps


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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 26 2012, 08:05

As I said (maybe I didn't express myself correctly...), in order to survive the Overwatch from necron units (like warriors or worse: inmortals with tesla carbines), you should declare a charge with a sacrificial unit in the first place, just before charging with the main combat units i.e. wyches, incubi or beasts.

You should be doing a lot of wounds to win combat, at least 4-5 more than the enemy. In this way Incubi are priceless... wyches need some help if they don't want to just stay locked in combat, so the girls should better be fighting vehicles... in any case, tarpiting the unit can save you from getting shot, and at the same time you're keeping him from capturing any objective with his unit.

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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 30 2012, 14:34

Most like every game I play I try to kill there Hq's or more important models first as to make them think a bit more, for fighting necrons I really think about how much of the army something is worth and how it would help me by taking it down. Necrons especially I tend to run alot of ranged Deldar...but thats just me.

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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 31 2012, 12:56

@Eldur wrote:
As I said (maybe I didn't express myself correctly...), in order to survive the Overwatch from necron units (like warriors or worse: inmortals with tesla carbines), you should declare a charge with a sacrificial unit in the first place, just before charging with the main combat units i.e. wyches, incubi or beasts.

Also... if a unit is close enough to the overwatching unit, yet far enough from your other chargers, use them as there is a chance to have the backwashed tesla return to the necrons. ALWAYS Funny to watch... though you have to keep charge distances in mind so you don't let him shoot you out of range.
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Eldur
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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 31 2012, 13:11

A nice trick against overwatch....

you get your charging unit close to the necron blob. Then you bring another unit IN COVER TERRAIN but 12" away from the necron squad. Declare charge with this second unit (you're 12" so you can declare), and when they overwatch then you go to ground and soak the fire, with a 2+ (in ruins) or 3+ cover save for cover terrain.

Another good option to charge necrons is using Harlequins... most of the time you can get 2+ cover save if you are charging through some cover (which you ignore).

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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 31 2012, 15:24

Can you go to ground from overwatch shots? Do you still get to do the charge if you do?

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PostSubject: Re: How do DE beat necrons?   How do DE beat necrons? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 31 2012, 15:35

@Seshiru wrote:
Can you go to ground from overwatch shots? Do you still get to do the charge if you do?

Yes and no, in that order. Bottom of page 18 in rulebook.

It's actually a very good tactic, especially as you don't have to declare you're going to ground until after hit and wound rolls. So if there's no real damage to the unit you can go ahead with the charge (which will almost always fail) and not lose their actions for the following turn.

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