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 First Blood

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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Join date : 2012-04-26
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PostSubject: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 12 2012, 12:02

Given the fragility of our troops and especially our vehicles, I just wondered how people deal with what seems an almost certainty for our opponents to score First Blood? When list building these days I find myself thinking about this sort of thing a lot as the secondary objectives are often the deciding factor in many games.

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First Blood YhBv3Wk
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Unoi90
Hellion
Unoi90

Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-03-22
Location : Milan, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 12 2012, 12:51

If i start i usually take first blood (i play a lot of lances so I can usually destroy at least a tank in the first turn --> First blood)
If I'm not starting I hope for night-fight (so, an easy 2-3+ cover for me--> first blood for me)
If I'm not starting AND there isn't night-fight... well, that's not a good thing... usually here i lose first blood. But it's just roughly 25% of my games (statistically: one game on 2 I start, and 1 game on 2 there're night-fighting rules)

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 12 2012, 13:54

I find I can reserve all my raiders in most of my lists if I think they are going to give away first blood. That only leaves my reavers on the board (and taloi if I'm running them). I do think reserve is one of your options to limit giving away first blood when you go second. But in a full mech list it's a tough one. Sad

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

Posts : 7558
Join date : 2012-04-26
Location : London

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 12 2012, 14:52

Yeah, I will definitely think hard on what to reserve. Getting First Blood seems to be a bit of an obsession in our group as the games are so tight usually and 1 VP can swing it.

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First Blood YhBv3Wk
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Cavash
Lord of the Chat
Cavash

Posts : 3237
Join date : 2012-04-15
Location : Stuck in an air vent spying on plotters

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 12 2012, 16:36

In my recent games I have had no difficulty taking first blood. I put that down to my dice throws being rather good recently (fingers crossed they are tonight).

I usually face some sort of power armoured army, so I like to focus on taking one enemy squad in the first turn. I Usually utilise cover to the best of my ability, template a squad with two different Cronos Parasite Engines. This usually kills a couple of Marines per blast, reducing a ten man squad to six men. I then move my Duke Dakka Venom forward and unleash the fury. The sheer number of shots from this is great for mopping the unit up, and alongside the pain tokens dished out by the Parasite Engines I find this tactic very nice.

When I don't get to go first I place everything in cover where possible or keep them in reserves. The usual lack of infantry fielded doesn't normally pose a threat. The Rhinos, however, are an irritance. I llet my Scourges deal with them.

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Fraust
Hellion
Fraust

Posts : 68
Join date : 2012-08-23
Location : It bounces around a bit.

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 13 2012, 01:03

My group has more than a few decent sized buildings, so I normally hide and then come out blasting....hoping to find at least one relatively fragile thing to kill. If there isn't enough room to hide all my transports/bikes then I reserve a few warrior squads to make room and act as late (though never seems to be late enough) game objective takers/line breakers.
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Glamhadril
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Join date : 2012-09-26

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 13 2012, 04:28

in my experience the only thing that really improves your chances of getting first turn is either reserving, deploying very conservatively or using a special HQ like the baron or vect to help improve your chances of going first, because going first almost always gives you first blood
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RocketRollRebel
Hellion
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Join date : 2012-06-28

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 13 2012, 23:28

I run a mostly mech list aside from some scourges and if I go first, I'm probably getting first blood but going second without nightfight, then yeah first blood is probably going to my opponent. But! We should be getting line breaker and our archons arent too shabby at getting slay the warlord either.
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mug7703
Sybarite
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Join date : 2012-09-19
Location : Brighton

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 15 2012, 01:37

@Glamhadril wrote:
in my experience the only thing that really improves your chances of getting first turn is either reserving, deploying very conservatively or using a special HQ like the baron or vect to help improve your chances of going first, because going first almost always gives you first blood
Something we discussed recently here: https://www.thedarkcity.net/t4317-what-if-we-always-went-first
Getting the first turn, or more important, being the person who is quite likely to choose who gets the first turn can affect many things. First Blood it seems being one of them.
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Unoi90
Hellion
Unoi90

Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-03-22
Location : Milan, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 15 2012, 08:28

Guys, yesterday i went to a tournament in my city: there weren't any LOS-blocking elements at all... Sad

First game: night fight, i started second: I've saved every shot against my vehicles in his first turn, then I've destroyed an annihilation barge in my first turn. First blood Smile

Third game against space marine: There were not night-fight rules but I played first. First blood for me against a Land Raide Smile

The second one... No night-fighting, I lost the first turn... against tau with 6+2 crisis and 3 broadside... ouch.
Nowhere to hide i had to deploy at least 1/2 of my army (new reserve rule, I hate you) and lost 4 reavers, 1 raider and 2 ravager in his first turn. Done nothing in my first turn with just 3 Trueborn and a venom.
And lost my incoming reserves in his third turn... :S

We are TOO fragile to get shooted and resist to get first blood in our first turn... at least if we play a mech army.

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

Posts : 4017
Join date : 2012-07-16
Location : Toroid Arena

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 15 2012, 08:41

@Unoi90 wrote:
Guys, yesterday i went to a tournament in my city: there weren't any LOS-blocking elements at all... Sad

Sounds like the tournament decided not to play 40k. That sucks. When are people going to realise that 40k is not supposed to be played on planet bowling ball! Shocked

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Darklight
Sybarite
Darklight

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Join date : 2011-05-27
Location : Stavanger

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 15 2012, 09:29

For me I think its only 1 game I havnt got first blood so far. I have been lucky on a few occautions I must admit.
Thightest game I have had in 6th ed so far has been 14-10. But I usualy calculate me loosing first blood. But I go in to every game with the mindset of me whiping the other guy of the table Very Happy

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Unoi90
Hellion
Unoi90

Posts : 26
Join date : 2012-03-22
Location : Milan, Italy

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 15 2012, 11:02

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Unoi90 wrote:
Guys, yesterday i went to a tournament in my city: there weren't any LOS-blocking elements at all... Sad

Sounds like the tournament decided not to play 40k. That sucks. When are people going to realise that 40k is not supposed to be played on planet bowling ball! Shocked

Yeah... just some low elements giving cover save to Infantry... (usually just 1 blocking LOS on infantry) not high enough to block LOS on my old raider models Sad
Tournament's tables are not too good here in Milan... unless you play 8X razorback...

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Gobsmakked
Rumour Scourge
Gobsmakked

Posts : 3274
Join date : 2011-05-14
Location : Vancouver, BC

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 15 2012, 21:41

@Unoi90 wrote:
@Mushkilla wrote:
@Unoi90 wrote:
Guys, yesterday i went to a tournament in my city: there weren't any LOS-blocking elements at all... Sad

Sounds like the tournament decided not to play 40k. That sucks. When are people going to realise that 40k is not supposed to be played on planet bowling ball! Shocked

Yeah... just some low elements giving cover save to Infantry... (usually just 1 blocking LOS on infantry) not high enough to block LOS on my old raider models Sad
Tournament's tables are not too good here in Milan... unless you play 8X razorback...

Sorry to hear about your situation Unoi90. That's just pathetic, especially at the tournament level. Good looking and effective terrain can really add a lot to the experience of each game.

I always try to design whole terrain sets that force people to move around the tabletop if they want to achieve anything worthwhile. And I try to make the individual pieces attractive/effective enough tactics-wise that people want to use them. I don't see the point of making it, otherwise.
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Thor665
Archon
Thor665

Posts : 5526
Join date : 2011-06-10
Location : Venice, FL

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 15 2012, 22:41

First blood is very much based on chance more than strategy to my mind - you can do some things to improve your chances (running Baron, certain target priority) to my mind it's more of a 'yay, nice' reward than a 'my army will get this unless I play badly' reward.

I basically suggest that you get first turn.
If you don't, deploy very defensively as long as it won't hurt your army's chances to harm the opponent.

Not much else to it, I'm afraid.

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PostSubject: Re: First Blood   First Blood I_icon_minitime

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