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WeeDawgNYC
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 11 2011, 05:57

@Zee Alice wrote:


I personally like the succubus, I like the Archon but...combat drugs. I'd feel bad if I never got to roll on that chart all the time ;-;


heeheehee, I know that feeling. funny thing is I built a 1k list to toy with & told my opponent that I was rolling for drugz & after getting a 6 I realized I had no units with them...lol such a dissapointment Sad
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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 11 2011, 14:27

lelith is expensive, not particularly hard to kill and averages only 2 meq wounds per round, which given her points cost is terribad, what makesit worse is that her rules do not match up with what her fluff wax's lyrical about.

She is supposed to be this mighty undefeated single combat artist , but all she is really good at is blowing through units of geq, any character with an invuln and high str is very bad news for her (ie most of them), Im not trusting a character that costs that much to not die based on me passing a single 3++ ..... (which is incidentally worse than a marine 3++ because due to her T she will be taking more saves) It's a shame It would have ben nice to have her actually terrorize opponents IC's, but she is not even good enough to warrant inclusion in a list let alone actually scare anyone.

really she needed a rule where she gets to re roll to hit and to wound vs indi chars (or maybe just one chosen at start ?), fluffy and based on most likely needing 5's still it's not OP.

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MalysII
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 11 2011, 19:27

At the mo, i am using her in condunction with a Bloodbride Squad in a Venom. any left overs from 12 poisoned shots will get slaughtered by the Succubus and bloodbrides! will post if the twinf Power weapon combi is effective as have a game planed vs nids. should work!
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Hashmal
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12 2011, 07:15

Lelith's rules are amazing.

Lelith's point cost, however, is not. She's way too expensive for what her rules allow her to do.

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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12 2011, 13:59

Hi Hashmal, I'm really not seeing the 'amazing' though I'm open to be persuaded otherwise....

I'm not sure I would take her at half the price, honestly

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12 2011, 14:30

One thing about her made me lol.

BS9, probably highest in game and no gun.
She totally could make good use from throwing knifes or something. Like 12" instant death 2+ poison with no AP.

That would made her quite useful.

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a1elbow
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12 2011, 15:48

@Local_Ork wrote:
One thing about her made me lol.

BS9, probably highest in game and no gun.
She totally could make good use from throwing knifes or something. Like 12" instant death 2+ poison with no AP.

That would made her quite useful.

Avatar and Thirster have 10, I think after that she is the next best, but there might be something else.

Lelith is awesome because she generally has over nine attacks. The problem with her is against Marines she'll be "lucky" to kill three (which is actually not that bad considering they are Space Marines). Against GEQ it's more like four (until she has a couple Tokens and gets FC, then she has a little better chance against both). That isn't bad, but a for-combat Archon can do about that at roughly half the points.

If she had drugs or buffed Wych squads she'd be real nasty. I wish she gave Wych and Bloodbride squads free Wych Weapons (to represent her Cult being the best equipped).
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Hashmal
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12 2011, 15:49

@Sorrowshard wrote:
Hi Hashmal, I'm really not seeing the 'amazing' though I'm open to be persuaded otherwise....

I'm not sure I would take her at half the price, honestly

Blenderizes infantry units in non-MEQ armies (these do exist, I swear), and can do decently in MEQ armies. Particularly useful against CC squads in said GEQ armies, especially poor Eldar squads. In return, also minimizes attacks coming back at her and has a great Invuln save. Can generate Pain Tokens in a hurry. At half her points, she'd be very solid.

At her current points level, though, god no.

*note: I don't pay attention to rules vs. fluff, as rules =\= fluff, so the fact that she's not a one-on-one duelist matters not a whit to me. It could've said she's the Rainbow Queen of the Unicorn Kingdom, for all I care.

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Raneth
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12 2011, 16:10

@Hashmal wrote:
As a budget CC option, there are many worse in 40k. Most people want her to be more than a cheap CC alternative - those are the ones that will be consistently disappointed.

QFT, I think the Succubus is great! With just an agoniser and maybe a Venom Blade tacked on, she's killier and more resilient than an Archon could ever be below 100pt. Right now she's leading my humble 500pt Wych Cult but I expect her to be worthwhile til at least 1500. Very Happy
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Sorrowshard
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 12 2011, 20:03

Blenderizes infantry units in non-MEQ armies (these do exist, I swear), and can do decently in MEQ armies. Particularly useful against CC squads in said GEQ armies, especially poor Eldar squads. In return, also minimizes attacks coming back at her and has a great Invuln save. Can generate Pain Tokens in a hurry. At half her points, she'd be very solid.

At her current points level, though, god no.

*note: I don't pay attention to rules vs. fluff, as rules =\= fluff, so the fact that she's not a one-on-one duelist matters not a whit to me. It could've said she's the Rainbow Queen of the Unicorn Kingdom, for all I care.


Yeah essentially what I think of her really, but is not like DE need any help in the blowing up geq dept, I'd hate to be a guardsman outside a bawks vs DE... god job DE have a tough time opening the box more often than not.

As much as I am a competitive player I have some core need, at least for special characters to behave how they are described to, if they don't it just seems like they may as well have not bothered at all, Lelith should be a character killer, she is 'the' DE gladiatorial champion and actively seeks out skilled opponents to test herself. I feel like I have been sold an apple and given an orange, I Like oranges but would really rather have an apple ...... plus like I said DE have oranges coming out of their ears already.

I actually think very little thought was expended on her rules, she could have bought something to wych themed lists and given us a nice anti character character, on the subject Drazzy is only any good for blowing up footsloggers too, he's 230 points of fail

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Hashmal
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 13 2011, 06:17

I would much rather have Drazhar's previous incarnation back. 90 points for an upgrade character to Incubi that positively butchered things.

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Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 14 2011, 20:46

[quote="Zee Alice]

I personally like the succubus, I like the Archon but...[/quote]

...which is best?

There's only one way to find out...FIGHT!

In all seriousness, it's good to see it's not only my Archon who can't hit a cow's arse with a banjo, or his blast pistol.

I haven't used a Succubus yet as I used the model as the base of my Lady Malys. I was thinking of converting the Wood Elf Highborn with Great Weapon though.
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GrenAcid
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 15 2011, 21:07

In first game I used Succubus(agoniser-haywire-blast pistol), she killed squad of eldar jet bikes(before wyches swing a blade) then an avatar(before he swing a blade) and do some dmg to warwalkers.....for 105 pts.....she cant be bad.

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Painjunky
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 16 2011, 08:16

Succubus - Agoniser + 8 Wyches - Hekatrix -Agoniser + raider - flicker.

Has never let me down. Is feared by all who wear power armour. Claims objectives.

Do not charge into the middle of the enemy army like a child. Isolate a juicy target with your firepower and bitch slap them.

You can give them haywires and/or blast pistols if you want but AT is not what this unit should be doing.
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Dodo_Night
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 23 2011, 00:21

@Painjunky wrote:
Succubus - Agoniser + 8 Wyches - Hekatrix -Agoniser + raider - flicker.

Has never let me down. Is feared by all who wear power armour. Claims objectives.

Do not charge into the middle of the enemy army like a child. Isolate a juicy target with your firepower and bitch slap them.

You can give them haywires and/or blast pistols if you want but AT is not what this unit should be doing.

+1

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thelordhellion
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 23 2011, 02:09

The succubus is cheap......that pretty much all the good points go. weak armour, S3 T3...even with a agonizer that isn't so good. However the succubus might work with a raider rush...use the raider to block fire while your wyches take out the light infantry.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 23 2011, 02:59

The Succubus' affordability is certainly a strength.
Weak armor...she has 4++ in h2h, that's actually pretty solid.
S3...doesn't matter, she's using an Agoniser anyway.

She puts out about 2 power weapon wounds on the assault, versus anything with a WS of 7 or lower (aka - most everything) regardless of their toughness - for well under 100 points, and that's not even counting if she gets a benefit from her combat drugs. The Succubus is pretty amazingly solid considering her cost.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 23 2011, 04:25

@Painjunky wrote:
Succubus - Agoniser + 8 Wyches - Hekatrix -Agoniser + raider - flicker.

Has never let me down. Is feared by all who wear power armour. Claims objectives.

Do not charge into the middle of the enemy army like a child. Isolate a juicy target with your firepower and bitch slap them.

You can give them haywires and/or blast pistols if you want but AT is not what this unit should be doing.

+2
I'm not sure what people are complaining about with the Succubus. She's cheap and kills stuff. She's T3-like all non-coven models in the army. She has no armor except a 4+ inv save in CC where she belongs. She's well under 100pts and makes them back if you don't march her naked across the board. The model is pretty damned nice. What's not to love?
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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 00:32

Lack of upgrade options like the old Archites.

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Rabid Bunny
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 02:50

I'd like to use the Succubus, she seems like a steal for the points, slap on an Agonizer and she is good to go. I normally run Lady Malys with 7 Incubi and a Kalivex so I don't tend to have much issue killing assault units, but my local store has seen an influx of Grey Knights, so some I8 Agonizer attacks could be handy removing some Halberds to lessen what my Wyches get hit by in return.
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 17:38

For 85pts a Succubus with agoniser is excellent. For something so cheap, it does immense damage. This is the great thing about them, you don't need anything else at all, so because your HQ is so cheap yet so efficient, you have a lot of points left for the actual units in your army, whereas for an Archon to be good you have to spend out a hell of a lot more.

My Archon is 170pts (for this comparison I suppose you'd say he's 155pts as you might not be buying him a PGL for his Incubi like I am), my friend's Succubus is 85pts. Yeah my Archon can potentially wreak a lot more havoc, but he's twice as expensive, and for that my friend has a lot more other infantry and special weaponry on the field. The Succubus will still wreck most other units, and when it comes to enemy HQs, the Succubus will still deal a wound or two, and whatever unit she's with will finish them off.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 19:11

Though I will say the cheapest effective Archon build is 75 points (Blaster Archon) which stacks up pretty well to the Succubus' 85.
I suppose the cheapest effective h2h Archon I can build would be 110-120 (Archon+Aggie+Shadowfield+optional Combat Drugs) and the fascinating thing is, at that loadout - it's pretty debatable how much better he is than the Succubus who racks in at 15-25 points cheaper, and at 25 points cheaper the only difference is a 4++ instead of a 2++ and the succubus gets better stats across the board.

Succubus is a very solid purchase as long as you understand what you're paying for and what you're not.

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Grumpy Kwi
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 19:57

For me, if the Succubus was allowed at least a clonefield I would have tried the Succubus by now.

I have been goofing around with a Succ with hydra gauntlets and a random combat drug - fun to see what she can do in play testing.

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Thor665
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 20:00

Yeah, it's odd you can't take some of the gear for her - a Clonefield Succubus would be a no brainer though. Still, if you think of her as a super Hekatrix she's still priced about right.

Modeling wise the gauntlets sound cool, I'm just not sure I can really get behind a special character who is built for assault but can't handle 3+ saves. Kinda embarrassing, yeah?

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 24 2011, 21:11

I can't see Succubi with any sort of fancy shield tho, that's unfluffy. However if she could pick WWP... I mean it's pretty reasonable for Wych leader to have "space pocket" so other girls may pop out.

Guess she belongs to "I don't know tech, not gonna bother to learn since it's "manly" anyway" kind of women.

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