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Spanna uv Komor-AAAGH!
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PostSubject: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 23:10

This will be short and to the point:
How do you use the Succubus and why?

As brutal as her stats look, a T3 HQ with nothing more than a 4+ CC Invul sets off a multitude of alarms in my head. And that's before you start comparing her to the other HQ choices. Given how balanced the rest of the book is, I don't think that the Succubus is as bad she seems to me, so how has the femme fatal worked out for you guys?

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Xelkireth
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 00:22

I don't use the succubus. She's a waste of points. Doesn't have the options and is consistently out performed by an archon.
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Hashmal
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 00:27

Were I playing a 500 or 1,000 point game, I'd take her. For an 85 point character, she's really not too shabby. The Archon, to get similar performance, pays more.

As a budget CC option, there are many worse in 40k. Most people want her to be more than a cheap CC alternative - those are the ones that will be consistently disappointed.

I wouldn't use her above 1,000 points, though, as then I have enough of a points ceiling to comfortably take an Archon.

If you're doing Wych Cults, though, it's her or Lelith.

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 03:30

I mostly agree with Hashmal, but one thing I think, from a strictly "why not?" PoV, is when I see people taking a naked (or minimal equipment) haemonculus just to fill the required HQ slot and stick him in a CC squad. I get liking the FnP, but for just a few more points you get the Succubus and I don't know the difference is that great unless the twenty points would make a difference some where else.

It all depends, but I think having a naked Haemonculus that jumps ship and then tries to hide the rest of the game...why not just pay another twenty points and take a Flail or Gauntlet Succubus? Yeah, she won't give anyone a token, but at least she does stuff during the game.

But mostly she just isn't that great, yeah. Always take one in small games, because she adds a lot of punch for a low amount of expenditure.
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 04:00

I don't think the Succubus is that bad. You get an extra Agoniser and a lot more attacks in your Wych squad, and for relatively cheap. You can have two Succubi with Agonisers for the price of Lelith, and they'll pump out about the same number of wounds. Granted, you're eating up your HQ slots that way...

I try them because every time I take an Archon with the common builds, he does nothing but wiff. Wiff wiff wiff all day long. Huskblade? Wiff. Venom Blade? Wiff. Power Weapon? Agoniser? Blaster? Wiff. I don't know what it is about me and my Archon, but he has underperformed severely every time I've put him on the table.
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Hashmal
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 06:16

My Archon's combat style is an ancient, dark tradition passed down from the very spires of the dead halls of Shaa-dom itself. It seems to consist mainly of him covering his eyes, holding his weapon out, and running into things, swinging away. I'm sure he has a plan behind his amazing number of misses. It must be beyond the likes of me.

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 06:51

Baron + Archon.
Both dead after a total of three saving throws.

And twice, my Archon has delivered his portal in the opponents half of the table, and then run of, fleeing all the way to his own table edge, without even rolling a saving throw.

A Succubis however, is a great "suicidal" character.
Just add a venom blade for extreme cheapness, or an agoniser for a more TAC approach and send her screaming into enemy ranks as soon as possible, preferably by a first turn assault.
She is also great as a striker out of a portal.
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 08:21

Agree with Speedfreak. Cheap as possible, either Venom Blade or Hydra Gauntlets in my case, and let her rip as soon as possible.

I have also used two at a time, just for fun.
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 12:11

I have 65 points lef tover on my list. If I take out one Wrack with a Liquifier, I can put a Succubus with an Agonizer in the Wrack unit, giving me something that can kill high armour save models in close combat. Yes, she's worse than the Archon, but an Archon with Agonizer, drugs and Shadowfield costs 120 points compared to the 85 point Succubus. She's basically a cheap and killy hq when you want somethign with lots of power weapon attacks but are on a budget.

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 14:54

Succubus with Agoniser if brilliant for the points, "free" combat drugs and if you stick her in a unit of Wyches to provide some ablative wounds she should hit combat. Yes she is amazingly vulnerable at T3 with only a 4++ while in combat but normally she can destroy enough stuff on her own to grab a quick pain token. In 1000pts lists I've taken two, one for each Wych unit I took and the amount of stuff they have killed has been sick! They've slaughtered Carnifexes, Tervigons and countless little things as their normal S3 is pretty crap whereas the Agoniser makes them brutal, especially with the re-roll wounds drug result.
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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 15:39

Indeed, she is worth her 65+ points.

However, if You can take cheap utility guy or waaaaay better (and pricy) Archon... She have her uses tho, just like other said.

Only bad thing in her is "manface" model. Otherwise she is excellent.

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theblackjackal
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 15:56

@Local_Ork wrote:
Only bad thing in her is "manface" model. Otherwise she is excellent.

Which is why you use either of the Lelith Hesperax models or make your own from the Wyches kit instead. As long as she's hard to misidentify and is WYSIWYG, there shouldn't be a problem except against unreasonable opponents.

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Local_Ork
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 16:19

/\
this is exact reason why I tried to buy Lelith (tho it was "failcast")

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GreySeerZ
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 18:37

Just curious, why is finecast getting such a bad rep. I actually know very little about it, except that its a combination of plastic and resin.

Does it melt like resin (FW stuff melts if left in the car)?

I've already bought some models in it, and the ability to use warm water to reposition limbs is pretty amazing, are there other reasons for the hate?
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Hashmal
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 18:40

Cost, maybe. I dunno.

So THAT'S what your avatar looks like!

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 19:00

Haha, yea, its tiny on other forums. I've basically just photoshopped the same image over and over again for the past oh 4/5 years. I guess I'm just lazy Razz.

But yea, I don't really have an issue with finecast, so far the minis look like minis to me Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 20:28

Sometimes I take her as a cheap character to babysit a wytch squad but generally she isnt all that great
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 09 2011, 21:53

I plan on using her as a cheap HQ.

Actually I rather like her. for 90 points I get an agonzier, an invul ( in CC only) and haywire grenades.

I am using one in my 2K point army to run with a unit of wyches.

I don't believe she has to be a beatstick like other HQs, but for the points she is dirt cheap, can do a reasonable amount of damage and certainly bolster a unit of wyches or even incubi as cheap source of assault grenades.

for 90 points I think she is a steal if you don't have points for a more expensive HQ and if she get killed its only 90 points...

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 05:31

@Local_Ork wrote:
Indeed, she is worth her 65+ points.

However, if You can take cheap utility guy or waaaaay better (and pricy) Archon... She have her uses tho, just like other said.

Only bad thing in her is "manface" model. Otherwise she is excellent.
The Succubus isn't one solid piece of metal/resin, you know. You can use a different head without dremelling the 'manface' off.The Succubus Attachment

That said, I plan to get Lelith Hesperax too. By far the best female mini GW has ever put out. (Plus, her pose is just fun. I made an Ork version of her, and it works so well I plan on using it as a Kommando model)

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 09:38

Poor succubus model. The "manface" on the model isn't nearly as bad as you might think. The heavy metal painter really dropped the ball and did the sculpt a terrible disservice. The problem with this model is that it is very busy without actually doing anything. She is loaded with details and wargear that overwhelm a drab/ static pose. I don't think she would have been judged so harshly but for inevitable comparisons to the Lelith model. An almost diametric opposite composition-wise. Minimalist kit in a fluid/dynamic pose and the best presentation of the female form to grace a gw model. Succubus, a good sculpt but totally outclassed and overshadowed. I picked up a finecast of the fig and gave it a servicable paintjob but I've been reexamining it and wondering if I could tone it down with a replacement part (combat knife or pistol rather than the halberd) and a more subtle green (I used a scorpion green into yellows for the agonisers lash).

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 11:11

A succubus won me a game on her own. Detatched from a wych squad and charged a combat squad of marines holding his objective, while the rest of my army protected her. She killed them all, and took the objective from his grasp. She simply had a powerweapon. I was lucky and got +1 S drugs though. I also had furious charge when she charged.

She was then felled by a death company dreadnought - but she did her job.
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 11 2011, 00:15

@Xelkireth wrote:
I don't use the succubus. She's a waste of points. Doesn't have the options and is consistently out performed by an archon.

This is almost word for word what I would have written, It's a shame they gimped Lelith too, you are not likely to see that model on the table often I'm afraid.

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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 11 2011, 01:32

@DrBored wrote:

I try them because every time I take an Archon with the common builds, he does nothing but wiff. Wiff wiff wiff all day long. Huskblade? Wiff. Venom Blade? Wiff. Power Weapon? Agoniser? Blaster? Wiff. I don't know what it is about me and my Archon, but he has underperformed severely every time I've put him on the table.


I couldnt agree more. Archons do NOTHING for me but regret wasting points. I use Vect if I want an Archon. But I found that a Succubus with agoniser & hwg in a unit of Incubi with a naked Haemon works very well & like stated before if Im lucky enough to roll a 6 for drugz they become almost immposiible to get rid of (3+, fnp & furious assault) in cc.
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 11 2011, 01:34

@Sorrowshard wrote:
It's a shame they gimped Lelith too, you are not likely to see that model on the table often I'm afraid.


How was she gimped?
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PostSubject: Re: The Succubus   The Succubus I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 11 2011, 04:49

@WeeDawgNYC wrote:
@Sorrowshard wrote:
It's a shame they gimped Lelith too, you are not likely to see that model on the table often I'm afraid.


How was she gimped?
Strength 3 power weapon attacks feel bad.

At least that's why I avoid her, it'll take two pain tokens before I feel confident in her on the -charge- much less anything protracted.

I personally like the succubus, I like the Archon but...combat drugs. I'd feel bad if I never got to roll on that chart all the time ;-;
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