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 What if we always went first?

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mug7703
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PostSubject: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 03 2012, 15:41

So I was bored and decided to pop out the probability of getting the first turn if you have Asdrubael Vect and the Baron with a Grey Knights ally of Inquisitor Coteaz. (+1 to first turn roll, Vect's 4+ to steal the initiative and Coteaz allows you to re-roll this). It comes out to a 90% chance!! That's huge for the DE. I know I've seen this mix suggested before but it got me wondering about what kind of list would be good for this army. The Baron isn't hugely necessary because without him it's still an 86% chance and you ideally want to steal the initiative so you can deploy in response to your opponent but I thought he could be a useful attack force in an army with this ability. What other nasties can we add from the Grey Knights to complement our force?

Another tactic is to have Lady Malys and redeploy on average 2 units if you get the first turn and have to deploy first.

This would obviously be a 2,000point army so what do people think would work well? Shooty or very assault and in your face? Is this just a gimmick or can it be competitive. I always find games often go my way if I get the first turn.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 03 2012, 15:46

@mug7703 wrote:
The Baron isn't hugely necessary because without him it's still an 86% chance

Without Baron it's 75% isn't it? 4+ with a reroll.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 03 2012, 15:56

I like going second. Razz

Interesting idea though.

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 03 2012, 16:42

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@mug7703 wrote:
The Baron isn't hugely necessary because without him it's still an 86% chance

Without Baron it's 75% isn't it? 4+ with a reroll.

75% chance of going first with the 'steal the initiative' roll. This means you already lost the first roll to go first or opted for your opponent to deploy first.

@Mushkilla wrote:
I like going second. Razz

Interesting idea though.

I struggle when I go second as I have some crucial units shot out of the sky and often one of my Ravagers destroyed. But I haven't played over 1,000pts yet and I think the board I play on is slightly too sparse on terrain for cover and LOS blocking terrain.

Especially when you're playing against IG! Sad

Please use the edit button in future. Thanks. - Mush
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 03 2012, 16:45

@mug7703 wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@mug7703 wrote:
The Baron isn't hugely necessary because without him it's still an 86% chance

Without Baron it's 75% isn't it? 4+ with a reroll.

75% chance of going first with the 'steal the initiative' roll. This means you already lost the first roll to go first or opted for your opponent to deploy first.

Sorry, yes. My bad.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 03 2012, 16:57

@mug7703 wrote:

I struggle when I go second as I have some crucial units shot out of the sky and often one of my Ravagers destroyed. But I haven't played over 1,000pts yet and I think the board I play on is slightly too sparse on terrain for cover and LOS blocking terrain.

Especially when you're playing against IG! Sad

Yeah that must be tough, you could always keep valuable units in reserve if you think they will get destroyed, or there isn't enough terrain to hide them behind. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 04 2012, 09:17

I take the Baron almost every game. If the first turn is night then I will decide who goes first but if it is day, then 1st every time so can do damage and move to help keep from dying in their turn 1. Having a fast troop choice is nice also.

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mug7703
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 04 2012, 13:37

@Black Death wrote:
I take the Baron almost every game. If the first turn is night then I will decide who goes first but if it is day, then 1st every time so can do damage and move to help keep from dying in their turn 1. Having a fast troop choice is nice also.

I thought you roll for NF after the rolls for deployment.

So what sort of list do you think this IC combo could work best with? I think a very in your face assault army would get to charge up the field earlier so it would be beneficial for multiple units of wyches, incubi, reavers.
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 04 2012, 14:45

Why would you want to always go firts? THere are plenty of situations where you should go second.
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 04 2012, 16:12

@Azdrubael wrote:
Why would you want to always go firts? THere are plenty of situations where you should go second.

To avoid heavy shooting turn 1 and to take out some key enemies.
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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 04 2012, 18:54

You are correct . Stupid me. Oh well Wrote that while tired anyway it is still nice to know you have that option day or night so you can help prevent a turn 1 slaughter of your force.

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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2012, 02:50

@Black Death wrote:
You are correct . Stupid me. Oh well Wrote that while tired anyway it is still nice to know you have that option day or night so you can help prevent a turn 1 slaughter of your force.

It's not a stupid point. You're right that it can often be a tactical advantage to go second. I just like this list because it gives us a good chance of dictating who goes first or second seeing as if we win the first roll, we decide, and if we lose or opt to go second, we've still got a 75% seize chance. - Especially good as the enemy has deployed first. Smile
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2012, 07:27

I may be wrong, but I believe Black Death was talking about the night fight roll.

And he is correct, you roll the d6 for nightfight before deployment and therefore before determining who goes first or second. So his statement was perfectly valid.

Quote :

If the mission has the Night Fight special rule, roll a d6 before deployment...- BRB page 124

Hope that helps. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2012, 10:07

Ah I see. Turns out I was really sleepy when I read that post lol. Hmmm, so you roll on the Warlord Traits table afterwards right?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2012, 10:28

@mug7703 wrote:
Ah I see. Turns out I was really sleepy when I read that post lol. Hmmm, so you roll on the Warlord Traits table afterwards right?

No worries. Smile

You roll on the warlord trait before determining who deploys first (who goes first).

Quote :

Before either player deploys, they must first determine their warlord trait... -BRB page 121

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PostSubject: Re: What if we always went first?   What if we always went first? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 05 2012, 19:58

Thanks Mushkilla, I was about to post that. I read the rule last night to see if I was mistaken and found I have been doing it right all along. Well like with any new rule set, reading and re-reading happens a bunch. Happy Gaming all.

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