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 On Necrons and Flyers

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Shadows Revenge
Count Adhemar
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Setomidor
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 27 2012, 06:03

I got a game in last night against the local tournament organizer, and even though his list was pretty laid back for the evening without any flyers (since he was playing a newbie... me), we discussed the "problem" of Necron flyer lists for the upcoming tournament. He didn't see it as much of a problem as he intended to rule that any embarked passengers will suffer the S10 AP2 hits associated with a crashing Flyer, even if they teleport away and enter through reserves. We had a look at the rules and could not find any reason why this would not be the case, main rulebook clearly states that any embarked passangers do suffer the hits, and we couldn't find anything in the Necron codex (apart from some fluff text) suggesting that they should not count as embarked. In effect, the teleport-to-safety thing should be seen as an alternative to disembarking, but the models inside are still embarked when the flyer is destroyed and will thus suffer the hits. Twisted Evil

I got the impression from internet reports and general fear that this is not the normal interpretation of the rules, but can anyone point me to a rule that invalidates this? Shocked
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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
Count Adhemar

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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 27 2012, 10:52

The fluff from the codex clearly supports the idea that the models are not actually physically embarked on the flyer. There is nothing in the rules though to support this and AFAIK passengers would still take the hits if the flyer is destroyed.

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On Necrons and Flyers YhBv3Wk
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 27 2012, 16:50

+1 for Adhemar. There is no rule that says they dont suffer the damage results. There is no FAQ that says their Disembark happens before the damage is delt. Infact the rules show that they do take damage, as per the order of process.

Flyer Crashes
Passangers take damage
Disembark the survivors

So just because their disembark is special, they still take the damage as per the order, they dont disembark before the damage is done, as nothing says they do.

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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 06 2012, 20:44

Sorry guys but codex always trumps rule book unless FAQed. On pg 51 of Necron codex it states in the transport heading that they are not hurt but just enter as if from reserves. Its rules do not follow the rule book for transporting. I know it sux but that's the rules. Believe me I know as my wyches raider explodes and I have half a squad left......

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 06 2012, 21:52

@Black Death wrote:
Sorry guys but codex always trumps rule book unless FAQed. On pg 51 of Necron codex it states in the transport heading that they are not hurt but just enter as if from reserves. Its rules do not follow the rule book for transporting. I know it sux but that's the rules. Believe me I know as my wyches raider explodes and I have half a squad left......

Nothing in the section you mentioned conflicts with the rules for passengers in flyers on page 81 of the rulebook. So the passengers take the S10 hit before going into reserve.

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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 07 2012, 02:40

Sorry count, just that the guys a GW told me this, so was going on what they told me.

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Zaakath
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 07 2012, 03:13

@Black Death wrote:
Sorry count, just that the guys a GW told me this, so was going on what they told me.

Sadly, anyone that has asked any GW person a rules questions generally gets a different answer from each of them.

Don't have my necron book nearby, but the FAQ is available:

This ammendment:

Page 51 – Night Scythes.
Add the following special rule:
“Invasion Beams: A unit that begins its Movement phase embarked upon a Night Scythe can disembark before or after
the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so long as the vehicle has not moved more than 36". If the Night
Scythe moves more than 24" in the same turn, the disembarking unit can only fire Snap Shots.”

states that the unit IS embarked.

And this one:

Q: Is there any way to embark back onto a Night Scythe?
A: Yes – follow the rules for Embarking on page 78, treating the Night Scythe’s base as its Access Point. Note that this is
possible despite the Night Scythe being a Zooming Flyer.

Clearly show the intent to have the models IN the flyer in my mind (especially as an organizer myself).
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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 07 2012, 19:38

The text in the codex is pretty clear.
Codex Necron p. 51 wrote:
...If the Night Scythe is destroyed, the embarked unit is not allowed to disembark, but instead enters reserve (...).

This (at least in my eyes) shows clearly, that you have to use the standard rules for destroyed transports, because if you didn't you would never be allowed to disembark and the quoted rule would be pointless.
Under the current rules you take a S10 hit if you are embarked on a crashing transport and only survivors are allowed to disembark, so not surviving Necrons can't be put into reserve.

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Spiney Norman
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 07 2012, 21:27

I don't know where the idea that troops embarked in a Night scythe don't take hits, I have a 3K Necron army (only 1 Night scythe) and they most certainly do take hits. Basically if you don't move them on to the table and disembark on the turn they enter (I mean you have 36" to get them where you want them to be) then you're an idiot, flying transports are death-traps, pure and simple.
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Black Death
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PostSubject: Re: On Necrons and Flyers   On Necrons and Flyers I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 09 2012, 19:24

Okay so now seeing that the rule does work for the hits even tho the fluff says otherwise. This will probably be FAQed again in the future according to GW.

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