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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 07 2011, 23:36

I consider myself to be a really good painter, just awfully slow. I'm really pleased with the amount of awesome logs we have on here and seen some amazing airbrushed work.

So... sell me on them. Are they that hard to use, will I break the bank buying one, any good tutorials?

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 00:10

I have know some really good tutorials, but they are in Polish...
https://www.youtube.com/user/CYTADELAPL

Oh well.

From my experience they are just another tool, however they mainly save a LOT of work with flat surfaces (like... Dark Eldar vehicles?) , can be used to make zenithal lighting (linky!) on troops and make excellent tool for blending.

Check Massive Voodo tutorials.

I actually used mine 2-3 times (well... weekends since I paint in huge batches:P) to paint my Marines and while I need to paint them some more during summer (I've had accident that destroyed my turrets, sponsons, hatches and doors Sad) I think it's one of best investment (especially when I've bought whole compressor + airbrush set for less than 2 Ravagers + Raider).

You want double action airbrush, since "single" is... well, not worth (it basicallywork as spray can, only on/off mode) if you can pay similar price for "double" (it may work like single on maximum setting BUT also you can change saturation).

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeWed Jun 08 2011, 07:55

There has been quite a bit of discussion about them over at The Waaagh over the past year and a half, or so. The more experienced members have compiled an excellent Airbrush Buyer's Guide at http://www.the-waaagh.com/forums/?showtopic=43153 that includes some links to external resources, as well. Agatheron, in particular, has done a number of lengthy tutorials whilst working on various projects.
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 00:26

Can I get some feedback on the following please

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Airbrush-Kit-Airbrush-Compressor-/190543086759?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item2c5d40c4a7

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRBRUSH-KIT-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-AIR-BRUSH-COMPRESSOR-/270754591019?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item3f0a3b312b

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRBRUSH-KIT-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-AIR-BRUSH-COMPRESSOR-/370268372610?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item5635b6fe82

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2010-COMPLETE-AIRBRUSH-KIT-COMPRESSOR-AIR-BRUSH-AS18-/110621375526?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item19c18c3c26

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 01:14

IMHO you should go with membrane compressor.

Airbrush? B350-compact-compressor-100x100

I have one I've posted above and it is really quiet.

All of those You've posted work with pistons and probably are loud as hell. You can have "quiet" piston, but it require big tank that "store" pressure.
Also, pistons get's hot faster than mine for obvious reasons.

Personally I don't think You need two airbrushes for acrylic paints. They need long time to completely get dry and hard (resin medium) so you may as well clean it...
I have one like non-jar from third auction.

[edit]

oh, this looks promising

this also seems good, at least they say how loud it is

up to 50db is quiet (like in classroom), 60 is like normal dialog while 70 is main street (so quite annoying). 80 may damage your ears (and certainly sanity) if you want work long with it.

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 02:40

The first suggestion you made in your edit seems like a very good price, something that wouldn't break the bank. What tutorials are there for the basics, such as readying the Airbrush, things to use and basic application and blending? In English Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 10 2011, 03:00

Check out this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/user/AirbrushTricks
He use "Killer effect" phrase waaaaay too ofen and his choice of music may be annoying from time to time but he shows many useful techniques. He even have few begginer videos.

Cleaning... unscrew needle, clean it in paper towel (careful), clean visible paint from airbrush, insert needle (probably would be a little dirty from paint leftovers), fill "bucket" with alcohol and spray (even to alcohol cannister), let it dry. I do that and I'm fine in general. Best advice is to NOT let your paints dry and don't disassemble aribrush too much if you don't need [mostly You just follow colour change drill].


Oh and I use mostly pigments (liquids you add to wallpaints), since they don't have acrylic resin and can make smooth, thin and saturated surface (tho you may brush them if you would not seal them after painting)

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 14 2011, 03:17

ah, airbrushing. one of my many loves.

As for airbrushes being easy to use, they're not. at least not at first. But like with any other tool, practice first before trying it out on models.

One good method to learn how to use the airbrush is take a large (no, larger. larger. i'm talking HUGE!) piece of paper and practice lines. sure, it may be boring at first but this is essential in knowing how your airbrush operates, what distance the airbrush needs to be from the paper to prevent paint dripping, the dreaded orange peel look and spattering.

One airbrush I've been using is a badger 250. Siphon feed and has a good sized container for doing up vehicles and batches of infantry. It can use any paint out there including acrylics, enamels and latex based paints. It is semi-controllable, giving you the ability to make quarter inch lines to two inch wide swaths. But being that it's single action siphon feed, it's only good use is basing and priming.

Once you've learned how an airbrush operates, you can either keep the single actions or upgrade to a dual action as you see fit.

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 26 2011, 12:06

Can I get feedback on this airbrush before I buy it later please

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350412987925&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 26 2011, 21:34

How about the GW Spray gun, anyone know how that works? I'm tempted to get one for painting all my Dark Eldar vehicles in on shot
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 26 2011, 21:39

If you're going to go down the airbrush route do it properly. The GW brush is pretty poor from what I hear as the cans of propellant do not provide a steady flow of air and therefore that will mean paint distribution is not consistent.
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 26 2011, 21:45

The GW spray gun is pretty crap, really. Airbrushes cost several hundred euros, GW sells theirs for less than 50, what does that tell you? Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 27 2011, 01:35

@Ciirian wrote:
How about the GW Spray gun, anyone know how that works? I'm tempted to get one for painting all my Dark Eldar vehicles in on shot

I wouldn't recommend that to even my worst enemy. what you want is a basic single action airbrush. Most of them come in a siphon feed configuration, so you'll also need a compressor to run them at medium PSI (35-45 PSI)


Sky Serpent: that listing has ended, so I can't comment either way.
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 27 2011, 02:30

If You want tool, then use tool. GW spray gun is not tool, it's plastic squirt gun, pew pew.

Also, if You happen live outside US or Aurtralia you may have problems with getting those propellant cans...

And If I'm correct it's single action thing, You get 0% or 100% paint flow. You certainly want one that allows You to spray between those values.

In addition, it does not cost You £18,50, it cost You £18,50+£5.50xN (and this N may be big. Compare it to normal spray can of purity seal. How long can You use it, about 20 or so minutes? Exactly, most units/vehicles would require more than one can.)+special paints (while You certainly can use GW acrylics, there are special "airbrush" lines made but different manufacturers, like Vallejo Air).

Just to make fair not-including-paints comparision, single action Spray Gun + 6 cans cost nearly as much as proper double action airbrush + unlimited work time. Ok, that's not fair, it's like kicking midget.

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 27 2011, 23:04

What about this one?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TOP-END-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-AS18-NEW-AIR-BRUSH-KIT-/380296526063?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item588b7078ef

I may give up on the airbrush idea. It is starting to get confusing and I can find no basic tutorials for what I need. Do I need to buy cleaners etc? Will it take long to learn?

I don't think of it as a quick way of doing things, I just want to get the best result on my Dark Eldar.

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 27 2011, 23:21

Hmm, instruction says "very low noise level", but specification give no db value? Hope it is true...

http://www.images.wiltec.info/doc/kompressor/Instructions%20Airbrush%20Compressor_34203_As%2018-2.pdf

IMHO airbrush just change painting vehicles into pleasure, really. While I need to repaint my stuff (I must change "roofs" of my highly customised SM tanks to something more... sturdy) it can quickly give really good results. Magic sits in masking and proper using of trigger (dagger strokes etc.).

Basic using airbrush would not take long. Especially if You are stubborn madman, like me.

If You can, go for it, really.
I may post within few days freehand... on my laptop, for sure PIP, maybe video. Lil bugger got some serious scratches... I also hate blinking "ASUS" sign, gotta take wirecutters and epoxy, *sigh*.

[edit]
For example this:
Airbrush? Fireprism-21010517
Looks cool, I guarantee this blue did not took more than 20 or so minutes of work (not including paint drying time).

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 28 2011, 02:31

here you go sky serpent:

To start, you need a compressor that includes a tank. the tankless compressors have problems keeping a constant stream of air going and they burn out too quickly. I did spot this on ebay though...

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Compressor-Airbrush-Leidi-Automatic-7107-PR-/270768679516?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item3f0b122a5c

a tank will give you much smoother air flow, and can be regulated (VERY IMPORTANT!!) for the ideal pressure for your paints.

Next, you'll need an airbrush. I suggest a badger single action. It's what I learned on and they make excellent brushes. A 350 would suit you well. http://www.dickblick.com/products/badger-model-350-single-action-airbrush/

In the picture, you can see two glass vials for mixing large batches of paint, and a smaller cup for smaller amounts of paint. It also includes the hose you need to connect to the compressor output.

Now, for paints, you'll sit there asking whether you want to use latex or oil based paints. Latex are what most acrylics are based on. Oil based paints are mostly your enamels, but there are some water based enamels too. Find a staffer in your local hobby store that knows his paints back and forth. If you don't, you might end up with misleading information.

The basic airbrush workflow is this: Check brush, prep model (Wash, sand, wash again, dry), set pressure, test for proper paint/airflow, prime with either oil or waterbased primer, then use basecolors. Once the model is painted to your liking and you're finished your work, clean your brush by using cleaner through the paint path(water or appropriate thinner), then with cotton swabs, micro pipe cleaners (sometimes sold as inter-dental brushes) and then with paper towel.

oh and one more detail that gets overlooked a lot. GET YOURSELF A GOOD QUALITY PAINT MASK!! you REALLY don't want the airborne particles getting into your lungs and reducing your breathing capacity. And check to see if the valves are operating as they should periodically. If you smell paint while wearing the mask, stop what you're doing, leave the area and look over the mask carefully for leaks.

Failure to adhere to the instructions included in the mask could really mess your life up down the road.

-----------

Airbrush tutorials.

First lesson here. Make sure you do this as soon as you're set up.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aIlOG_Ospo
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 30 2011, 19:38

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRBRUSH-KIT-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-AIR-BRUSH-NEW-R-/290542879780?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item43a5b48424#ht_3745wt_1139

Ok, advice on this one please, give me the go ahead and I will buy it.

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 30 2011, 20:11

If the price is OK with You, then go for it, it seems like nice equipment.

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 01 2011, 01:40

@Sky Serpent wrote:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AIRBRUSH-KIT-AIRBRUSH-COMPRESSOR-AIR-BRUSH-NEW-R-/290542879780?pt=UK_Crafts_DrawingSupplies_EH&hash=item43a5b48424#ht_3745wt_1139

Ok, advice on this one please, give me the go ahead and I will buy it.

Well... it lacks a tank, but the rest looks pretty good.

again, you need a kit that consists of a compressor with tank.
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 01 2011, 19:43

Righty ho, I managed to get a compressor with tank and decent airbrush for £100. Quite happy.

I have ordered some cleaning brushes, planning on Vallejo thinner and cleaner. Do I need anything else?

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 01 2011, 20:45

Lots of masking tape and sharp knife for cutting it. You will use loads of it for "freehands" masks.

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 01 2011, 21:03

I would highly recommend getting a decent respirator before you begin airbrushing!

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100195886/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

Something similar to that is what I use with my airbrush, and it seems to do the job. Remember that if you can smell the paint/thinners while airbrushing then you are breathing that stuff in.


Also from having taught myself how to airbrush mini's over the past few years, I can tell you that the most difficult part in my opinion is learning how to 'thin' the paints. To thin the typical water based acrylics I use either flow improver or Windex. For any enamels I use (they make excellent primers), I simply thin them with Paint thinner. I've had great results with these cheap/available cleaners/thinners.

So when you are thinning paints, you want to aim for them to be the consistency of "skim milk." This will take some practice, so don't give up if you don't get it right the first time! If you thin your paints too much they will basically not 'stick' to the model and they will run down the mini(or if you apply them too heavily.) If you don't thin your paints enough, any number of problems can happen including; sputtering, inconsistent spray, grainy appearance.

Lastly... DO NOT try to use cheap paint. In my experience it clogs up the airbrush regardless of how much you thin it!

Well I got a little carried away there, but I wish you luck with your airbrush! Ever since getting one myself I can hardly imagine trying to paint mini's without it!

Noth
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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 01 2011, 22:20

Welcome to the forum Noth and thanks for your input. Do you guys mix the paint in the airbrush's cup or mix it beforehand and pour it in?

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PostSubject: Re: Airbrush?   Airbrush? I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 01 2011, 22:59

I use paints that easly mix with water, so I mix them in cup. This is NOT advisable in case of acrylics tho.
I also noticed quite helpful thing: it's good to "lube" airbrush by spraying some water/thinner first.

I paint with water based pigments (it gets some time to learn how to use them propertly, due to lack of "medium" they can be applied with ease... and even easier messed up!).
May switch to emanels, as some people stated they may be way better than acrylics.

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