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 Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing

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Mushkilla
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Shbur
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Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 20 2012, 07:14

I wanted to condense two questions into one post for maximum efficiency!!!111one

1. What is the point of flickerfield? All of our skimmers can literally move any distance and acquire a 5++ jink save. Is there something that I'm missing?

2. I'd like to debate the usefulness of a Razorwing Jetfighter v.s. a Voidraven Bomber.

-Both are 145 pts
-Razorwing comes with 4 monoscyth missles, a 40 point value
-Bomber comes with a Voidmine, an indeterminable value
-Bomber has void lances, effectively Dark Lance + 1 str
-Bomber has access to 2 different missiles.
-Bomber has higher front and side armor

The bomber is geared for AT mostly and the Razorwing for AI mostly (correct?). However, with a few extra points, the Bomber can do both just fine, and in some cases, better. I guess I'm having a hard time taking something that seems to have less utility to save 40 points. Razorwing users, come defend your aircraft!
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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 20 2012, 07:20

Flickerfields are invulnerable saves, not cover saves. They work when the vehicle is stunned, when charged, when hit with cover ignoring weapons... They have their uses but it is questionable as to if they are worth 10pts

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 20 2012, 07:51

A flicker field has a 1/3 chance of saving your flyer from every penetrating/glancing hit, without sacrificing your own shooting next turn (flyers don't get a jink save for moving, only for evading which means they have to snapfire next turn: BS1 and no missiles). Most flyers only get about four turns of shooting, missing out on a turn of shooting is practically cutting down your flyers effectiveness by 25%. As a result I think flicker fields are a perfectly sound investment on a flyer, and is one of the things that makes DE flyers effective.

As flyers only tend to get about four turns of shooting, and you have paid a premium for S9 lances it would be wasteful to not be shooting the voidraven at armoured targets (all the missiles are really anti infantry). The razorwing on the other hand can be given disintigrators for free, making it a dedicated anti infantry platform. OR as it comes with missiles already you can still give it lances for AA and keep the stock missiles for anti infantry.

Void raven, flicker field - 155 (Dedicated Anti armour/interceptor).

Razorwing, flicker field, 2 dissies - 155 (Dedicated anti infantry, no point giving it a splinter cannon as you can only fire 4 weapons a turn)

Razorwing, fliker field, splinter cannon, lances - 165 (multirole, lances against other aircraft, and missiles, splinter cannon and a single lance against infantry as you can only fire 4 weapons a turn)

Hope that helps. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 20 2012, 09:17

1) Flickerfield = invunerable save (as covered by the others). When it comes stock (as with the Venom) it's fine, but i wouldn't buy it for 10pts extra. Although it did save me from an assault by terminators once and a deff rolla! So maybe if you can spare the points it's not that bad...

2) Voidraven vs Razorwing.

a) It's not just 40pts, the Voidraven doesn't come with missiles at all. So you have to buy 1 to 4 missiles. You'll want all 4 obviously. So the Voidraven can easily cost alot more than a Razorwing. Because of this people often find it easier to fit the Razorwing in their lists for the 'obligated' flyer in the list.

b) Furthermore it's a waste for the Voidraven (seeing as he has the Voidmine, Voidlances and acces to other special bombs) not to go vehicle/flyer hunting when you take 'm (considering his costs). You should be able to find a thread somewhere in the Dark City where this has been discussed in detail.

--> So as with all our units in a DE army, it's all about context. There's not a 'this unit is good' and 'this unit it bad' kinda thing. You'll just have to figure out which one fits your list and playstyle better.

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 20 2012, 15:05

The Jink is only useful on a normal vehicle if it has moved, so turn 1, or any turn after you've been stunned, the vehicle is left wide open.

As mentioned, flyers have to evade to gain the jink, and can only snapshot in the following shooting phase. That means all your missiles, regardless of how much they are, are completely useless because you cannot snapshot blast weapons.

The other thing to keep in mind is what kind of tricks your local meta uses. If you have markerlight heavy tau, or Eldar exarchs on quad guns, to ignore cover. If that is the case, your invuln is even better.
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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 20 2012, 17:29

Thank you for all the wonderful responses!

Quote :
It's not just 40pts, the Voidraven doesn't come with missiles at all. So you have to buy 1 to 4 missiles.

I was comparing it strictly to a razorwing, as a razorwing has 4 monoscyth missiles which would cost 40 points to get on a void raven. It's hard to quantify to the ability to choose 4 different types, so I just did that.


I should of thought that the answer was situational. I do not know why I did not consider that.

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 24 2012, 12:13

Actually with new rulebook, there is confusion about ff. Nowhere does it states that you can take inv saves against glans/pens, only against Wounds. So playing with RAW flickerfield allow only invulnerable save against dangerous terrain cause it was FAQed.

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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 24 2012, 12:19

Nothing has changed in that regard. 5th had exactly the same wording. Anyone who argues that the flicker field does nothing RAW deserves a dreadsock

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PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 24 2012, 13:53

The only FAQED point about flicker field is :
Quote :
Q: Can I take a flickerfield save against becoming immobilised from a
Dangerous Terrain test? (p63)
A: Yes

and it's not even an erata.

@Zanais wrote:
Nowhere does it states that you can take inv saves against glans/pens, only against Wounds.
How is that relevant ? Flicker Field is a Codex rule. Codex > Rulebook.
Nothing changed about flicker field.
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Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing Empty
PostSubject: Re: Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing   Two Questions: Flickerfield and Bomber v.s. Razorwing I_icon_minitime

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