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 Why PGL with Incubi?

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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 02:35

i cant quite figure out why its so important to take an archon that has a PGL with incubi. archons already have plasma grenades, which count as assault grenades, so they dont need that part of the PGL. they dont really need the defensive grenades either, as charging an incubi squad isnt really a good idea in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 03:07

It is for cover saves! The defensive grenades provide cover against shooting attacks within 8". Very handy for dodging overwatch shots.
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 03:35

Where does it say that Incubi have plasma grenades?

Nevermind that, I misread you. Yeah, it's not really necessary to get the PGL. Just attach an Archon or Succubus and find some cover to charge through (or just rely on your armor saves or shadow field).

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 04:07

Taking the PGL means that when Incubi charge into cover they are not penalised by striking at Int 1, and hit at normal Int.

PGL gives the squad Assault Grenades

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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 04:13

Yeah, but the Archon already has assault grenades before he takes a PGL (which makes me wonder why they made it so expensive for him!).

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 04:26

As 1++ said, it is necessary so that you can give the Incubi Assault grenades.

I think some of you are mistaken. Assault grenades only benefit the models equipped with them. If an Archon that didn't have a PGL and a unit of Incubi charge through terrain, then the Incubi would strike at initiative 1.

If the Archon were given a PGL, then they would all have assault grenades, and could all keep their initiative when they charged through terrain.

The reason the PGL on the Archon is so expensive is because of this. By giving him the ability to take one, you are allowing any unit in your army that an IC can join to charge through terrain with no penalty. That sort of utility is expensive.
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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 04:38

So it does. My apologies, and thanks for the info. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 07:52

Yeah, agreed with the random dude.

On a sidenote, I seem to always charge stuff out in the open with my Archon + Incubi. Don't know why. So occasionatly I'm considering dropping the PGL. It costs 2 Wyches who have plasmagrenades stock!

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 10:42

Its the exact same reason why you see Baron running with Beasts

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 11:38

i dont really pay attention to baron or beasts, so why is he run with beasts?
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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 11:48

Same concept. Baron has PGL. Beasts don't have plasma grenades. So if you want to strike first when attacking units in cover you need the assault grenades from the PGL.

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 12:20

@hivey wrote:
i dont really pay attention to baron or beasts, so why is he run with beasts?

He has built-in PGL

Because none of the models in the beast section have assault grenades, so when they charge into cover, with the Baron attached, they strike at normal int, thanks to the PGL

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 17:22

Charging through terrain when a unit has Fleet is amazing. It maximizes the chance to get 12" charge off, since you can reroll all three dice if you wish. Incubi striking at their I5 is also a very nice thing, coupled with the otherwise not shooting Incubi getting some ranged firepower in the form of a plasma grenade. Also, since PGL gives the squad defensive grenades which, in turn, give Stealth if 8" or closer to the enemy, it means that charging through terrain/cover gives them a formidable 3+/4+ cover save.

Many, many benefits for 25 points. Honestly, if you're running a beatstick Archon with Incubi, what's 25 more points tossed in the mix?

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 11 2012, 23:11

Baron does one other trick, though, and that's hit & run. Amazing ability for improving the speed a unit can move across the board.

Charging through cover gives you overall more chances to roll those high numbers. Normally, you have to take the bottom two results, so that evens things out. Move through cover really turns difficult terrain into a slingshot, though. Over 100 simulated rolls, I have these averages:
charge normally through terrain = 5.8"
charge using only move through cover = 8.7"
charge through terrain with fleet rerolling 1-3s = 7.4"
charge through terrain with fleet & mtc = 10.0"

Fleet is good, but not as good as move through cover. Both together are amazing.

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 12 2012, 03:38

@Krovin-Rezh wrote:
Baron does one other trick, though, and that's hit & run. Amazing ability for improving the speed a unit can move across the board.

Don't forget his +1 for choosing sides/going first.....

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 12 2012, 08:08

@Krovin-Rezh wrote:

Fleet is good, but not as good as move through cover. Both together are amazing.

One minor problem, if I remember correctly move through cover does not work when you charge.

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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 12 2012, 09:28

Sure, because that makes sense! *grumblegrumblegrumble*

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 12 2012, 09:32

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Krovin-Rezh wrote:

Fleet is good, but not as good as move through cover. Both together are amazing.

One minor problem, if I remember correctly move through cover does not work when you charge.

I don't recall that being the case, but the Baron can only move as Jump Infantry once per player turn, so either in Movement (12") and charge as infantry (2d6), or move as infantry (6") then charge as Jump Infantry (2d6, with reroll)

Here's the contention, he has Fleet - so therefore he can reroll his charge range regardless - so therefore can move as Jump, then charge and still get Fleet.

As for MTC, IC's no longer have it as standard, but he benefits from the Beasts having it

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PostSubject: Re: Why PGL with Incubi?   Why PGL with Incubi? I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 12 2012, 09:49

Found it:

Quote :

The Move Through cover special rule has no effect on charge range rolls or Impact tests.
- BRB page 40

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