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 Extreme Necron Flyers

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TheSadPanda
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PostSubject: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 21:31

So, any advice on playing against the douchiest list ever?

6 Nscythe and 3 Dscythe, + various other things that really don't matter much in the end.

Also, this person is playing their cron flyers as being able to shoot all weapons with a 360 degree arc because they say turret mounted in the codex or something. So basically, no matter where they are they can shoot you.

I had a semi-venom spammy 2k list (had 6 venoms), with ravagers, a jetfighter, truborn here and there etc.

The list does well, not top tier, and I am not the greatest player either, but it holds it's own. Against this we made it to turn 3, and I just stopped. Those things are just too broken.

if it were 3 or even 4, it would be bad enough, but 9? Jeeeeesus........
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 21:44

20 pond hammer? XD

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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 22:02

6 Voidravens and 2 Quad-guns?

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 22:11

Actually, you have the description of the list backwards, the flyers don't matter much, the rest of the list is important. One of the local necron players keeps telling me he's brining this to take down my one flyer, and I always laugh at him, he doesn't realize why.

Depending on the size of the list, I've seen guys start with as little as a Ghost Ark and the HQ Chariot. The key is to crack those open and kill everything inside.

BRB p.122 first paragraph, second sentence:
Quote :
... if at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield, his opponent automatically wins.
That means if you kill all the non-flyer stuff by the end of turn 1, you win. Because flyers have to start in reserve.

Fair warning, they WILL curse and call it cheap and every other word in the book, but really it's their own stupidity.

edit: add proper page and quote


Last edited by xzandrate on Wed Sep 05 2012, 23:27; edited 2 times in total
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 22:21

how to table a flycron player turn1: 30 reavers, 3 disintegrator ravs!
they usually have 3 sq in res, 3 on the field and 9 flyers per squad, they take 10 d3 s4 ap- and 9*4/6 s5 ap2 hits. with an av roll, thats 20s4 and 6s5 hits. average thats 7.33, but he will have the minimum squads up. Or, you can go full cc, zoom up the board t1, and get in to cc, so the flyers can only shoot at the transports, with no real value now.

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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 22:38

xzandrate has is right. With this many flyers he is leaving almost nothing on the table for the first turn or two. If you have first turn then you have two full turns to wipe his small force off the board and win.

Just because the Tesla are Turret mounted in Fluff does not mean they can fire in a 360° radius. They are modeled on a fixed turret meaning they can only fire 45° anyone claiming otherwise if simply trying to further overpower an already very strong unit.

If for some reason you can't table the ground forces in the first turn or two use cover and Jink to keep your units alive on his side of the board. This should limit how much can be targeted and give you the opportunity to abuse flyer movement in the next turn to even greater effect reducing his available targets to a small portion of your force.

I have personally found Quad-guns to be a great help with flyer lists, being able to force Snap-shots or potentially destroy the plane before it can do anything.

Hope this helps.

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 23:55

I'd refuse to play that list. The main rule of Warhammer and Warhammer 40k is to have fun. It is a wargame. Games are supposed to be fun. Facing that list is not fun, in my opinion.

Although, it could be funny if you destroy his small force on the first turn. I recommend Ravagers with D.Cannons and massed Splinter fire.

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 05:12

If he wants to gamble by keeping most of his units off the table, then fine, table him T1 - game over

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 05:23

I feel like this is one of those lists that we would excel at because we have the speed to get up in the opponent's face with what little he has on the board to table him before he can bring hi sflyers on, that paired with the fact that thanks to our mobility we can outmanouver flyers for the most part so we have very little exposed to flyers regardless, also I would like to suggest trying the voidraven or the razorwing if you feel you need aa because the razorwing is very goodd for the dual purpose of anti infantry and anti tank. Take the razorwing stock with flickerfields and you can blow up infantry or you can use it on flyers or tanks if you need to. The voidraven I have not personally used although I see that as a good option too because it is great at taking out tanks and other flyers between the void lances and void mine.

I'd also think a good thing to keep in mind about flyers is that they don't really have high armour values so it doesn't take much to kill them normally once you've actually landed the hit
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 07:58

I'm pretty sure the weapons ar enot listed as turret mounted on the flyers. I think they're unspecfied, like the Voidraven's lances. If they're not listed as turret mounted, then they only have a 45 degree LOS. This should be pretty easy to check from the codex, but I don't own it myself.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 09:21

The death ray can shoot 360 degrees because it has special rules and says "anywhere within the weapon's range" but the tesla weapons on both the Night and Doom Scythes are quite clearly forward facing, non-turreted weapons and should have a 45 degree fire arc.

There are pics on this website that give a pretty clear view of the weapon mount.




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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 16:19

Now, these tesla weapons are twin-linked in such a way that you have two seperate pieces that you can draw a bead from, giving them an arc of fire more like a pintle-mounted weapon.

Tabling the Turn 1 unit is not always doable: 1, your opponent will probably keep his things out of line of sight entirely, 2, your opponent will bring something durable like Wraiths, Scarabs, or AV 13 biz, 3, Imotehk is probably dropping lightning on you, which can wreck critical boats, and 4, if he suspects you are going to do that, he can just start with more things on the board!

With all that accounted for, I played a Necron player this weekened who said that he was tabled by a Dark Reaper Exarch on a Quad Gun which denied him his cover saves. He took Scarabs, though, while Wraiths would not have this issue.

Turbo-boosting into their deployment zone isn't a bad idea, and makes them work a little harder, but don't believe that it will save you entirely, as you can draw some pretty sharp angles to fly on the board with any flier, and he can always pull a 2-turn angled maneuver.

Be careful that the game doesnt take too long- it takes a good chunk of time to resolve each lightning strike or arc radius.

I have no solutions, but perhaps that helps a bit.

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 18:48

I would argue that something that is not within the weapon's zone of fire is not within the weapon's range. You can hardly consider the area where you can't possibly fire to be within a weapon's range.

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 06 2012, 22:51

The Tesla is mentioned as Turret mounted only in the fluff piece describing the vehicle.

Also while the Deathray can go anywhere the first point still has to be placed in LoS and therefor in the 45° cone in front of the flyer.

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 03:54

There's an existing rules precedent of the Chaos Dreadnought firing at "the closest model" meaning "the closest model within LoS of the gun". Something can fire "anywhere within range" but still have a limited range of fire. A hull-mounted weapon can fire at any enemy within range, it's just that its range only extends in a certain direction.

Now, I don't have the Necron flyer myself, and haven't had a chance to get a good look at one, but if its gun can't turn 360 degrees like a turret, then its arc of fire is limited to that.

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 08:27

Remember that you can only take casualties from what you can draw LOS to as well!

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 09:05

Can't find any really clear pics but it looks to me as if the Death Ray is on a separate mount to the tesla weapons and it does look like a turret with a 360 fire arc.

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 13:25

It looks to me like there's cableing tethering it in place, limiting its turning range, but then again, the pictures aren't too clear.

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 20:59

It's flanked by two other guns. How could it possibly turn more than 45° without hitting one of them?

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 21:05

Q: If you leave combat airspace with all of your and have no
other models on the gaming board at the beginning of your
opponent's turn, do you automatically lose the game? (p122)
A: Yes.

Q: If all of my units are either or embarked upon Flyers, will I
automatically lose the game as there are none of my models on the
gaming board at the end of Turn 1? (p122)
A: Yes.

Well that makes life easier. Smile

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 22:40

@Krovin-Rezh wrote:
It's flanked by two other guns. How could it possibly turn more than 45° without hitting one of them?

Again, the pic is not clear but to me it looks like it's lower than the tesla weapons and could swivel underneath them. At the very least I'd give it a 180 degree arc. In any event though, I think the special rules for the death ray really do not require LOS. Cheesy though that may be!

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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 07 2012, 23:41

This turned into a good thread lol.

Actually did try the first turn wipeout, but in this particular case there were 20 warriors + some kind of lord behind an Aegis line way back in the corner., and they went to ground.

I was only able to get ~10 of the warriors prior to his turn 2. It did have him sweating a bit though. It would have been a nice 20 minute win lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Extreme Necron Flyers   Extreme Necron Flyers I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 08 2012, 02:56

Good to hear that it worked out, maybe you'll see a few less flyers in your upcoming games and get some good battles in.
Very Happy
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