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Damnosus
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PostSubject: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 01 2012, 23:07

From my understanding, the stereotypical "Gunboat" is most often a 10 man strong unit of Warriors riding in a Raider with at the very least, a Splinter Rack upgrade (mine in particular includes a Blaster and a Night Shield). My question to you all is how does one best effectively use this unit? I will be running one in my 500pt list and I am afraid of the unit getting blown to smithereens before it can even shoot at anything. Are Gunboats still viable or are they the strategy of a previous addition? Any insight into their tactics (especially for beginners like me) would be most appreciated. Thanks!
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AiEthimar
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 00:30

I am a big fan of 10 in a Raider with a Splinter cannon, splinter racks, and night shields. I prefer to keep it at between 18-24" of an enemy so that I can fire the warrior's rifles and re roll their hits. The cannon is there as just a volume of fire weapon. This unit also handles being assaulted pretty well (if your opponent hasn't shot down your raider) as you pump out 22 splinter shots-18 of which re roll any missed 6's. The blaster to me is a bit dicey because of it's shorter range though you might need it at such a low point level to bust any armour on the opposite side of the field.

AE

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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 01:25

With the changes to Rapid Fire these guys have gotten better. 10 Warriors, Splinter Cannon in Raider, NS, SR is a solid build, that can shoot single shots from inside 30" away or can really pound a unit up close from inside 12" - usually this is done to soften up a unit, for them to be charged by your assault units (Wyches, Beasts, Mandrakes, etc)

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Damnosus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 01:53

Are Nightshields good for a gun boat? My guess is that it would be a yes so as to mess with incoming Rapid fire.
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AiEthimar
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 01:59

I think they are useful for the rapid fire reason you mention. It is also useful if anyone tries to deepstrike behind your lines with melta weapons.

AE

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Astus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 02:05

Can't argue with what's been said above, just thought I'd add my two cents.

Generally like to hang my gunboat squad back, thanks to NS can outrange most enemy units (providing I hit anything with my ravagers, fingers crossed...). Pummel whatever you can see with the raider weapon and the cannon while the smaller venom squads/CC units move forward. Use them to fill in the battle line mostly, but have found they are very useful for grabbing objectives late on as they often seem to be low down on the priority list so if your careful the raider usually survives (for a while at least Smile )

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 02:15

I run 9 in a boat with nightshields/splinter racks and a dissie cannon. For 161 points you get a great AI unit that can close and pummel if needs be, and you can drop a haemy/the duke/ in with a 9 man crew for some deployment flexibility. Plus, without SC and Blaster they are less of a perceived threat.

Staying @ 24inches is ideal, and nightshields do help keep you from melta/rapid fire shenanigans. If you are worried about being shot down turn one, make something else more of a target; if you only have one raider hanging out it becomes a simple matter to shoot it down Wink

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Damnosus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 02:25

Are Dissies or DL's better on Gun Boats? Say in an all comers list, which would you take first? I think I would lean more towards a DL just to give the unit a more versitile role, in that worse comes to worse it can at least attempt to pop that tank.
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Astus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 02:28

Depends on what else you have in your list. Need more AT, DL. Need to kill lots of heavy infantry, Dissies. No right or wrong answer to that one. I'd almost say Dissie because you shouldn't face too many tanks at 500 points, but again depends what other options you have

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AiEthimar
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 02:31

The which is better debate has been hashed out innumerable times. It all boils down to "it depends" and what your local meta looks like.

I have stuck with the DL as a holdover from 5th ed when you needed every single darklight weapon you could find. However that will probably change and I will use dissies on my raiders more often because in my local scene TEQ is ungodly common and I have no large-scale way of eliminating 2+ armour; with dissies I hope to change that.

edit: Astus beat me to it

AE

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 02:33

Youse guys are quick on the draw today!

I dedicate ravagers and blasterborn/sniperborn to tank hunting; along with my haywire delivery systems Twisted Evil

I find that having 2 or 3 3 shot AP2 guns around is more advantageous than 2 or 3 more darklances. Besides, dissies can pop rear armour too. At 500 points though you are not likely to face too many 2+ saves, so you may be better of with one more anti AV12+ gun.

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Astus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 02:36

Apologies AE Smile

In fact I play mine exactly the same i.e. with DL for more AT shots. But also thinking of switching back to Dissie again due to better AT options elsewhere due to a larger army now.

What Dark and AE are saying makes sense though, perhaps start with a DL and see how you go. They're not very difficult to change if you feel the need

@ Dark: Insomnia is a killer...

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Darkgreen Pirate
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 03:07

@Astus wrote:


@ Dark: Insomnia is a killer...

Lol been there, done that, chatted with the hallucinations Shocked

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Astus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 03:08

@Darkgreen Pirate wrote:
@Astus wrote:


@ Dark: Insomnia is a killer...

Lol been there, done that, chatted with the hallucinations Shocked

Oh they're nice enough, just don't seem to know when to leave...

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 07:13

well, nowdays i run dizziz on every ship and plane i can have, due to me being assault based, and none of my opponents are keen on say razorspam. They more likely field pallies, dreadknights, draigowing, and usually psyfle dreads, or if not gk, 1-2 tanks at most.

if i would get hit by a razorspam list, i would be in trubble, but thank khaine me buds dont watch vid-reps on youtube ^^
Edit: actually noone seams to in hungary but me scratch meh, all the better for me Twisted Evil Cool

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Astus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 02 2012, 09:41

@Enfernux wrote:


if i would get hit by a razorspam list, i would be in trubble, but thank khaine me buds dont watch vid-reps on youtube ^^
Edit: actually noone seams to in hungary but me scratch meh, all the better for me Twisted Evil Cool

That's it, I'm moving to Hungary...

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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 03 2012, 17:34

@Astus wrote:
@Enfernux wrote:


if i would get hit by a razorspam list, i would be in trubble, but thank khaine me buds dont watch vid-reps on youtube ^^
Edit: actually noone seams to in hungary but me scratch meh, all the better for me Twisted Evil Cool

That's it, I'm moving to Hungary...


Tempting to do that too ^^
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 03 2012, 17:46

im awaiting yuz guyz with palinka if you do, just be quick about it, my flat is soon to be rented out if you dont ^^ only 90 € per copf and bills ^^

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Astus
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 04 2012, 00:07

@Enfernux wrote:
im awaiting yuz guyz with palinka if you do, just be quick about it, my flat is soon to be rented out if you dont ^^ only 90 € per copf and bills ^^

I'm there. Look out for the nearest webway portal Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 04 2012, 05:50

I made my gunboat shardcarbine trueborn. 30 shots bs 4 followed by an assault, 3 attacks each on the charge.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 04 2012, 07:22

30 shots bs4 4+, ap5...lets go the usual way: MEQ 3.33 unsaved wounds, overwatch, probably 2 will die, now combat: TB start 3 atk each, 24: 1.33 unsaved, marines hit back 2.22. You lost combat by 1, you killed 4, you lost 4...to fair a trade for my highborn taste Razz Wink

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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 04 2012, 23:31

Yeah, the rifles are a better value now that they shoot on the move and at longer range. If the carbines could use splinter racks, they would still be pretty nice.

Remember to maximize the range of your rifles with the gunboat, and to stay behind large pieces of terrain if you can. You want the front of the Raider poking out so that everything can shoot, but the flank and sail hidden to gain +1 to your cover save from any shooters in that side arc (which should be pointed at them). Measure 24" from the closest enemy target using pre-measuring, and with a kill or two, you should end up fully out of range of their rapid fire in the following turn. The most common exception is Firewarriors who have an extra 6" range, but you can still prevent a spread out squad from getting all their shots at you.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 00:06

@Krovin-Rezh wrote:
and sail hidden.

You don't even need to hide your sails. Razz

Quote :

When a unit fires at a vehicle, it must be able to see it's hull or turret (ignoring the vehicles gun barrels, antennas, decorative banner poles, etc).
- BRB page 73 under shooting at vehicles



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grandlordzero
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 05:55

Standard gunboat loadout is a Raider w/ dark lance, splinter racks, night shields + 10 warriors with a splinter cannon = 180 points

Other good setups include sticking in The Duke for the buff to splinter fire, or a homunculus for the pain-token and great wargear. Maybe even both of them if your willing to spend the points. However, remember that the warriors can only take the splinter cannon if they number 10 models, meaning you cant have an HQ and a splintercannon in the same raider. (Not too big of a sacrifice, but its something to consider since snapfiring 1 splinter cannon is the equivalent of snapfiring 3 rapid-fire rifles when you compare the number of shots, and its cheaper then an HQ. Plus its 36 inch range synergizes well with the dark lance's range of 36 inches.)



Use the dark lance to crack vehicles and tyranid monstrous creatures. You have the reassurance of knowing that even if your opponnet drops a land raider on the board, you can handle it. Strength 8 AP2 means its great against rhinos as well. Also great for inflicting instant death against marine HQ's and deathstar units (multiple wounds, feel no pain, and a 2+ armor save? NOT A PROBLEM.)

dissies are less good because your splinterfire provides all the anti-infantry you'll need.


If you are playing 500 points, use the nightshields to keep your distance while firing the dark lance at vehicles/monstrous creatures, and splinterfire against infantry. If you can get difficult terrain in between the raider and your opponnet, you can move in closer to rapid-fire your splinter rifles without worrying about the enemy hitting your raider with meltaguns. (its still possible for him to do it, but much less likely because the difficult terrain test limits his movement to 2d6 take the highest.) If you are 12 inches away doing rapid-fire splinters, he can only retaliate with his now 6 inch range meltagun if he rolls a 6 on his movement. (Dont blame me if this backfires on you though and your opponent gets that 6 on his movement, this is a gamble, plain and simple.)
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: The Gunboat   The Gunboat I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 05 2012, 06:58

@Mushkilla wrote:
@Krovin-Rezh wrote:
and sail hidden.

You don't even need to hide your sails. Razz

Quote :

When a unit fires at a vehicle, it must be able to see it's hull or turret (ignoring the vehicles gun barrels, antennas, decorative banner poles, etc).
- BRB page 73 under shooting at vehicles


As much as I'd like for you to be right on is one, I do believe the sail is a functional part of the Raider (read: not ornamental or decorative in nature). Here is the next sentence after that quote...

rulebook, p73 wrote:
Note that, unlike for other models, a vehicle's wings are not ornarnental and are a part of its hull.

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