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 Lances vs. Disintegrators

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Damnosus
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Damnosus

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PostSubject: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 03:22

I know this is somewhat of a worn topic, however, I am relearning the game and I am new to Dark Eldar in general so I thought it would be nice to get some feedback regarding when to use to one over the other.

So for Raiders, which is generally the better choice? Does it change depending on what is in it (maybe Dark Lances for Warriors and Dissies for Wyches?)?

Now for Ravagers, does it depend on the army you are facing or is there an auto include?

Just looking to establish a general guideline so that when I (or anyone for that matter) models the vehicle, I can be what exactly to glue on lol!
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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 04:36

It will chance depending on what your facing and what other options your bringing.
If you example you have a lot of 3DL Ravagers, HWG Wyches and HWBlaster Scourge you might have enough AT and opt for Dissies on your Raiders.

If you are taking venom spam with lots of Blasterborn + 5 Warriors with Blaster you might want the AI and take 3Dissie Ravagers.

Unless your facing a lot of AV10 Vehicles and or Termies then you probably want DL's on your Ravagers and then fit your Raiders to suit what your missing in the rest of your list.

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 05:05

It is rarely matter what weapon does Raider have. It wont fire it most of the time. I take Lances purely for psychological effect, so that enemy armor never feels safe.

If you are facing lot AV10 and Termies contrary to the last commenter i would advice taking Dissies Ravager.
My heavy support right now is 2 Dissies Ravager and Razorwing with Lances and Shatterfields.

Disses got upgraded to light antitransport weapon, it will wreck AV10 and have existing chances of wrecking AV11. And, naturally, it is great at mowing down Termies which we see so often. And marines, and bikes and so on.

Dark Eldar way was always overabundance in one area of killing be it splinterstorm or dark light disco, so im just following the trend and picking Dissies and Splinters for an Infantry killing machine, and cover AV with our new Haywire toys. Wyches with haywire, trueborns with haywires and blasters.


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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 07:25

You have misunderstood my post, I ment should there be lots of AV10 and Termies then Dissies otherwise take DL Ravagers.

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Damnosus
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 07:53

Well I am just messing around with a 500 pts list for the moment (I really have no plans to expand ), and my initial idea was to just use Raiders with DLs. However, I have begun to wonder if having my Warrior unit keep the DL (so that it is packing both anti infantry and anti armor) and then have my Haywire carrying Wyches in a Dissie Raider (giving it both anti armor and anti infantry as well)? It would just make things more well rounded and allowing me to still have some form of protection should one unit get obliterated.

This question is what got me wondering as to whether Wych raiders are better with Dissies whereas Warrir raiders are better with DLs?
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 08:10

It depends, if you think you have enough AT then Dissies are great.

Another thing is that lances need a certain critical mass, a lance on it's own is a waste of points. So in your list I would probably give both raiders lances (that way you have 2 and that is good at 500pts). But say in my 1000 point list 2 lances won't do much (and I don't need them).

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Greenest
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 08:38

As already mentioned, a single dark lance normally doesn't do much. 3 AP2 shots on a raider almost guarantees some kind of damage against infantry if you get a chance to shoot. And if you don't, it's free so you won't lose much.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:14

AT? Wyches.
AI? Dissies - for nothing has a 1up save thankfully.
5 wyches will most likely wreck a vehicle in one turn
a dissi ravager will mostly kill or soften up a squad of marines for them to be assaulted.
AA? Dissi - more shots=greater chance to hit it and make it fall.

Landraider? 10 wyches Razz "Mez gona glanz uz to deathz"

all in all, i dont see the need to field D.lances or blaster for that matter in the new meta. Now that glancing is enough, i can forget my blasterborn and have points for incubi!

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:18

Problem with Wyches is you have to get close and survive. D. Lances allow you to kill enemy tanks in first turn. And I dont see much use for haywire vs nids or foot armies ;]

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:20

@Zanais wrote:
Problem with Wyches is you have to get close and survive. D. Lances allow you to kill enemy tanks in first turn. And I dont see much use for haywire vs nids or foot armies ;]

And you see a use for dark lances against foot armies? Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:23

I've been pairing up 1 DL Ravager and 1 Diss Ravager and finding immense success. The Dissies Ravager puts out about 5-6 AP2 wounds, which usually rips apart half of a 10 man MEQ squad. Should be enough for 2-3 TEQ kills (Non SS) aswell, and the DL Ravager should get rid of another 1 or 2.

DL's are better when you're up against either multi wound T4 Termies, or MC's up to T6, so its all about brining the right tools for the job.

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Zanais
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:38

Yep, against nids, DL are almost certain Wound on any MC. When in tournament I think lances are safer bet than haywire wyches. Not that im saying wyches are useless, but I wouldnt made them my main source of AT.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:53

@Zanais wrote:
Yep, against nids, DL are almost certain Wound on any MC. When in tournament I think lances are safer bet than haywire wyches. Not that im saying wyches are useless, but I wouldnt made them my main source of AT.

i still have a unite of warriors in a venom with a blaster *grins.
I do, and since 6th, most opponents dont take that much tanks, so im not worried. My only concern is necron flyerspam, but you only need to hit them to force an evade or drop.

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Damnosus
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 16:36

One of the reasons I brought this up actually was because of Mushkilla's most recent battle report and how he used Dissies to open holes for his Wyches to run through and snack on vehicles. This got me thinking that maybe Dissies are better used in conjunction with Wyches...

Additionally, besides Dissie spam and straight up ignoring them, what is our general tactic against flyers? I mean isn't the possibility of flyers reason enough to take more dissies?
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 17:07

a dissi ravager has 1.5 hits against a flyer, so one rav can force an evade or drop event from any flyer. That usually means to sink one flyer, we need 3 ravs to hit, and from the back of the opponents dep zone, that is way more fun Smile
Then again, warwalkers are good to with scatter lasers, for one squad is guaranteed to get atleast one hit...and sadly you only have to roll one drop roll for each sqad that hits. Mind you, i would be glad if we would have one target missiles for the job, but meh, we cant have'em all.

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Anggul
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 23:17

I'm still sticking with Dark Lances. Good for vehicles, Monstrous Creatures and glorious against Paladins. If Disintegrators were S6 I would take them as they would wound most infantry on a 2+, but at S5 I'd rather have the S8 Lance.

Lots of S6 is good for glancing to death... S5 or lower is pretty poor unless you can fire an extreme amount of it from non-dedicated units, which only Tau are capable of.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 23:47

@Anggul wrote:
Lots of S6 is good for glancing to death... S5 or lower is pretty poor unless you can fire an extreme amount of it from non-dedicated units, which only Tau are capable of.

dont forget psybolt ammo Razz

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ctadkins
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 23 2012, 06:35

i have been playing in a 1500 pt monthl long tournament series at my local gaming store, and decided to go against the grain a bit and ran 1 dissie and two dark lances per ravager. it was more of an experimentation on my part but i have to say it has worked to great effect for me.

i know everyone will probably say its a horrible idea to split its weapons/focus, but i just wanted to chime in that its been useful in my tournament list where i was not sure what armies i would be facing week to week.
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 23 2012, 14:13

@ctadkins wrote:
iran 1 dissie and two dark lances per ravager.

When I first started playing my demo games the DE army I was using had this as well and work really nice. I found that if I happend to miss my DL shots (which was 90% of the time) I would always have that dissy as a back up. I'm thinking about running 2 dissy and 1 DL on both my Ravs.
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 23 2012, 14:15

how do you delete posts?
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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 23 2012, 22:24

I’d say that practically Dark Lances are the better way to go if you’re building a TAC list. That Lance ignores Termie armor AND inflicts Instant Death on a lot of things. And it lets you reliable plink wounds off Tyranid MCs which might be a little harder to wound with the Dissie.
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Lances vs. Disintegrators    Lances vs. Disintegrators  I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 24 2012, 12:18

Tyra MC: plock'em full of splinters. If its flying, then shoot multitple unites, if you have reavers, bladevane it to. He will fail a fall-save, then you can kill it with poisoned weapons.

Darklance vs T8
0.33 unsaved wounds. Ravager maxes it a 0.99
Darklance vs T4
0.55 unsaved, ravager makes it 1.67
Disintegrator T7
0.33 unsaved, ravager makes it 0.99
Disintegrator T4
1.33 unsaved, ravager makes it 4

On MCs, DL is betterthan disintegrator, but lets compare a gunboat: considering a 2up save, a gunboat does 1.55 unsaved, rounding is 2 vs DL 0.99 ravager, rounded to 1.

Instakill? *****please! I never go instakilling, unless you are t3 and my missiles hit you Razz I mow down your wounds, its more fun that way Smile

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