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Zanais
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 21 2012, 17:01

If Acothyst firing Hexrifle gets precision shot on 6 and I allocate that wound to for example Rune Priest in Grey Hunters squad, can my opponent still LOS that shot?
Also is there any clear rule if FNP negate instant death from unsaved Hexrifle wounds?

And not so much rule question, are those squads of 3 Wracks+Acothyst+Hexrifle better in objective based games than 5 Kabals + Blaster?
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mal'caor
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 21 2012, 19:22

Yes to LoS.

The hexrifle does not cause instant death, the model is simply removed from play with no save allowed. FNP is specifically defined as not being a save (rulebook, p35), but as a roll which can be used if an unsaved wound is inflicted. As I read it, you would cause a wound, the model fails it's usual save, and the wound becomes unsaved. At this point, FNP and the Hexrifle test come in to play - whichever way round you resolve the rules, FNP will negate the wound on a 5+, so you might as well do that one first. If FNP fails, you can then do the Hexrifle test.

Doesn't make much sense from a fluff perspective - you can ignore all the pain you want, the rifle still turns you to glass! Still, them's the rules...
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 01:07

you should target special weapon dudes, like flamers, meltas, rckitlounchas etc. They cant los and will die

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Count Adhemar
Dark Lord of Granbretan
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 10:35

6e has caused a lot of confusion with the FNP rules. Despite saying that FNP is not a save, it then goes on to say that, if succesful, the unsaved wound is treated as being saved.

In 5e you suffered an unsaved wound and any effects that were triggered by unsaved wounds would still be triggered regardless of whether the FNP is succesful.

In 6e...who knows? You suffer an unsaved wound but FNP turns it into a 'saved wound' so what on earth happens to other effects, like the hexrifle, that are triggered on an unsaved wound? Answers on a postcard...

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 11:37

Also remember that FnP triggers at the as,e time as the hex rifle and we now have rules telling us how to deal with this

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 11:55

I think it is worded better in 6th than in 5th, but it's still not 100% clear.
The 5th told us to ignore the injury, while the 6th tells us to treat it as having been saved.
So the pro is, that it doesn't use the never clarified or even used anywhere else term of 'injury', but it is still prone to the argument, that if a wound is treated as having been saved, it can't trigger the Hexrifle rule.

My argument stays basically the same.
FNP tells you what to do after the roll, it doesn't rewrite anything that happened before. FNP doesn't magically transform a failed saving throw into a passed one, but allows you to not subtract a wound, if you normally should do so.

I always imagined the procedure to be like a chain of commands you have to follow through, until you break the chain or finish.
I think it works something like this:

roll to hit
be hit
roll to wound
be wounded
roll a save
fail it
suffer an unsaved wound
roll FNP
fail it
subtract a wound from your wound pool
if you reach 0 or less remove the model

If at any one step you don't meet the criteria the chain is broken. So if for example you aren't wounded, you don't need to roll a save and so on, and if you pass your FNP roll you don't subtract the wound from your wound pool, as if it was saved.

But the hex rifle branches of in the middle of the list like that:

roll to hit
be hit
roll to wound
be wounded
roll a save
fail it
suffer an unsaved wound
roll FNP______________________________roll a wound test
fail it_________________________________fail it
subtract a wound from your wound pool_____remove model from play
if you reach 0 or less remove the model

So if you failed the save you suffered an unsaved wound and you still have to suffer all the consequences, except for loosing a wound, because the passed FNP roll brakes it's own chain, but not the branched of ones.

Just my 2cents.

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Kayto_Karite
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:00

Or you can follow the best rule in 6th Edition (I consider it the best because it explains what to do in wierd situations such as this one.)

Exceptions Rule: I don't have the BRB on me right now so I can't post verbatim. The rule pretty much goes into stating when 2 effects occur at the same time; the player who's turn it is chooses what happens first.

Example:

It's my Turn
I fire a Hexrifle
Roll to Hit Result: 6
I allocate this wound to the Sergeant in the squad because it is within LoS
Roll to Wound Result: 6
This wound is unsaved because it's rending.
2 things happen when a model has an unsaved wound. (FNP and Hexrifle)
I decide which happens first because of the Excepetion rule.
I decide for the hexrifle to take place first.
The Sergeant fails his test and gets removed from the game.
FNP now takes effect, but because there is no model in play the effect fizzles.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 22 2012, 13:17

@Kayto_Karite wrote:
Or you can follow the best rule in 6th Edition (I consider it the best because it explains what to do in wierd situations such as this one.)

Exceptions Rule: I don't have the BRB on me right now so I can't post verbatim. The rule pretty much goes into stating when 2 effects occur at the same time; the player who's turn it is chooses what happens first.

This is actually the worst rule in 6e, IMHO. We have two identical situations on consecutive player turns and they are resolved differently solely on the basis that it's someone elses turn? Absolutely frakkin' ridiculous!

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PostSubject: Re: Hexrifle   Hexrifle I_icon_minitime

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