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 Wych Bombs

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foeofnight
Hellion
foeofnight

Posts : 64
Join date : 2011-11-04

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PostSubject: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 18:50

Recently was down at the local shop getting a few practice games of 6th in and playing an orc player. I had decided to try out a unit of wyches with HWG for some tank wrecking potiential.
Little did I know that one sentence on the top of page 80 in the BRB would ruin the day for me.

I had no idea you could overwatch on a unit charging a transport!!!

So I happened to just be running 5 wyches out of a venom with the HWG and charged in on a truck. Lost 2 wyches as the hail of fire was just to much to bear.

So my question for all of you... How do you run your tank hunting wyches?

Things I am interested in: Squad size, transport, upgrades to unit ect.

Also am I just looking at an extreme of fighting an army with open topped? We have DE, Orcs, Maybe IG to worry about with this? Any other armies that have lots of fire points?

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

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Join date : 2012-07-16
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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 19:08

It's only really a problem with open topped vehicles (only orks, dark eldar and necrons come to mind).

I run them in squads of 8 with hekatrix, venom blade and PGL. So far they have been working out well for me two squads took out a bunch of marines, two razorbacks, and a vindicator (battle report).

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Shadows Revenge
Hierarch of Tactica
Shadows Revenge

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 19:33

I run 5 in a venom. for 125 pts (all of our troops seem to come out to that) you get a ton of AI, with some major AT threat too. They arent there to do much more than kill a tank, and I normally sit them back and only push forward towards my target once it has been cleared of anything that can do them great harm.

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Orthien
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Orthien

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 22:18

I run mine as a 5man in a Venom with HWG's Hekatrix with PGL and Lance. Its a bit more expensive but I feel it fits a good position between Mush and Shadow's units. Mostly they are used for Tank hunting(leaving the transports to Ravagers) soaking overwatch for Incubus or adding additional body's into existing CC.
The Hekatrix is not always worth the points but the ability to throw grenades at troops as well and provide cover on overwatch and have a good PW on the charge has proved handy at times. She is also another body for keeping your Warlord out of dangerous challenges.

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Talos
Kabalite Warrior
Talos

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Join date : 2011-09-15
Location : Malmö

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 23:12

Units of 5, hg, hak with a venomblade in ether a raider or venom.
My wyches fill the same spot as Orthiens
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Arrex
Kabalite Warrior
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Join date : 2011-10-11

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 23:30

9 man with Hekatrix and something nasty leading them.
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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 23:45

I start every army list with two squads of 7+Hekatrix with Agonizer, HWG, Shardnet/Impaler or Razorflails, Raider with Flickerfield. 206pts of awesome. I will also sometimes add Shadow's configuration (5+HWG, Venom+extra SC)I find that larger squads of 8 give me pretty much whatever I need, and the smaller units are great for tying up dreadnaughts for a couple of turns. I wouldn't worry about seeing a lot of snapfire from troops in open-topped transports. Worse case scenario will see you losing two or so. the remaining 3+ can more than take out that transport(though I would try to ave them assault non-transports as I try to pop transports first to maintain superiority in the mobility department.

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Krovin-Rezh
Kabalite Warrior
Krovin-Rezh

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 23:51

I think another important question in this thread would be "How many squads do you take at various point levels?"

Before I get into that, I'll quickly note that all squads I use have haywire grenades and a Hekatrix with power halberd. They are fairly good at sticking around once in cc, so I feel the axe/halberd rules maximize their effectiveness in this instance. Units that want to quickly finish or jump in and out of cc (like Hellions) are better suited to the power lance.

Also, I personally have stopped joining Haemonculi to Wyches, as I just face way too much S6 firepower in my meta.

Up to 1999 points, I'd say three squads of Wyches is the most you want to go. They won't be capturing objectives, and they are at a much higher threat of being wiped out than Warriors, Wracks, or Hellions. With the small squads of five, I have to take three at 1000+ points just to provide enough target saturation for them to be worthwhile. Below that, it's usually two. Medium squads of seven to eight can get away with two squads at 1000 points, but I would probably go with a single squad of ten below 1000 points, and above 1500 I tend to go with two squads of ten or a squad of eight with two more squads of 5.

At 2000+, you can take 12 troops (although I usually end up with only 8 or so below 2500, the other choices are just too good), so that means lots of those slots can be filled with small wych squads. Just remember that they are only troops in title. They play more like fast attack harassment units.

---

Now, pertaining to the situation with transports. The best way to deal with them is to assault first with something that isn't going to be that hurt by a few lucky shots. Hellions are pretty darn good for this, Beastmasters are great, Wracks with a Haemonculus, and even Scourges work since they have jink (especially joined by the Baron). Then, hopefully after they have overwatched against that first unit, the Wyches can follow up for the sure kill. It's worth charging two units into the same transport if it is filled, because then you can trap them inside with a wrecked result, killing two enemy units simultaneously and gaining two pain tokens if there was an independent character joined.

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Last edited by Krovin-Rezh on Tue Aug 21 2012, 00:20; edited 1 time in total
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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 23:58

@Krovin-Rezh wrote:

---
It's worth charging two units into the same transport if it is filled, because then you can trap them inside with a wrecked result, killing two enemy units simultaneously and gaining two pain tokens.

As I am reading this, you would only gain one pain token from wiping out a unit inside a transport, and would have to randomize which unit gets the PT per the PFP rule. Transports don't give a paint token and non-vehicle enemy units only give up a single pain point regardless of how many units have charged it.

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Wych Bombs JVMWVbU
"Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly."  -The Burning Eye
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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 21 2012, 00:09

I have suffered this problem recently, and my only advice is: pick your battles! Haywire Wyches are actually not too great at assaulting masses of transports, as A) Overwatch B) The transport immediately disgorges its payload of rapid firing whatevers. The best performances have come from using the against support vehicles: Russes, Griffons, Medusas and such. Normally you would shoot those to death before they could shoot, but planning for your Wyches to take these out can save you trouble.

Also, don't forget to throw your grenade, that extra 1-ish Hull Point stripped is solid gold!

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Krovin-Rezh
Kabalite Warrior
Krovin-Rezh

Posts : 131
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Arizona

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 21 2012, 00:19

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
@Krovin-Rezh wrote:

---
It's worth charging two units into the same transport if it is filled, because then you can trap them inside with a wrecked result, killing two enemy units simultaneously and gaining two pain tokens.

As I am reading this, you would only gain one pain token from wiping out a unit inside a transport, and would have to randomize which unit gets the PT per the PFP rule. Transports don't give a paint token and non-vehicle enemy units only give up a single pain point regardless of how many units have charged it.

Correct. I was thinking of the case when an IC is joined inside the transport, which is often the case. I'll fix my wording above to reflect that.

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Painjunky
Wych
Painjunky

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 21 2012, 03:58

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
I run 5 in a venom. for 125 pts (all of our troops seem to come out to that) you get a ton of AI, with some major AT threat too. They arent there to do much more than kill a tank, and I normally sit them back and only push forward towards my target once it has been cleared of anything that can do them great harm.

This is how i equip my wyches and how i use them in most games. I add NS to the venom tho that's just me. I currently run 2 of these at 2000pts.

Some games they will do nothing and i may as well have taken warriors for some extra shooting. The next game they will make up for it and then some by taking out a landraider or a dreadnought. Not bad for a 60pt unit.

I will try larger units in future.
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Azdrubael
Incubi
Azdrubael

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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 21 2012, 11:15

5 man Wyches in Venom. Thats essentially 8" Haywire Blaster on top of highly effective CC atack. 2 units of Wyches can just trim all Trukk Hull Points before charging.

Thats why im using multiple Wych squads novadays. If they make consolidated charge they can easily kill any transport before actual CC with only ranged atacks. Add in some decent long ranged support and you got yourself a recipe for any transport killing.

You can use Blast Pistol also to augment this tactics, but i dont.
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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Wych Bombs   Wych Bombs I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 21 2012, 13:11

5 Wyches, HWG in Venom - 125 of tank bustin power. To make this unit work, you need to pick your fights. HWG are for high AV Tanks. Try and charge them from the far side too, so your getting protection from the rest of this tanks, so look to flank one side. Use your lances to crack lower AV targets, use your Venoms or Reavers to thin out the squads.

For 5 pts more you're getting 5 Wyches, HWG in Raider, NS - the extra Hull point and NS could come in handy but all depends on your playstyle and rest of the build really.

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