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Hekatrix
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PostSubject: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 10:56

So I've heard a bit about 20 man Warrior units and thought I'd give it a go. I ran 20 Warriors 2 Splinter Cannons, The Duke and a Haemie for FnP. The Haemie was near the front to LoS onto the Duke's Shadowfield or to LoS onto a model thats getting cover followed by FnP.


Just wonder if anyone else has tried or thought about trying it and if so would there be a need for some sort of meat shield unit upfront. I'm thinking 4 Beastmasters, 10 Khymera, 4 Flocks.....The Beastmasters can LoS either high strength stuff to the Khymera or LoS small arms fire to the multi-wound Flocks
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 16:01

that is such a waste of points... so many points for almost not damage output. I wouldnt do it, ever...

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 19:29

20 man Warrior units Atrapitis

It's a lot of points that has has limited mobility(Haemi) and limited damage potential for the point sink IMHO.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 19:39

Unfortunately, as great as it sounds on paper Look out Sir won't protect you against an opponent with any sort mobility or skill.

My advice is try it out, and see how it goes and then make your own judgement. At the end of the day it's not whether the internet says it works or not, but whether it works for you.

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Sky Serpent
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 21:53

Get Duke to man the quad gun and away you go! Been thinking about this for a while now but I'm not convinced. Everyone I know is ramping up their anti infantry, I'm seeing more flamers, whirlwinds are back, for me in my meta it wouldn't be worth it.

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Orthien
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 18 2012, 23:32

I have a fellow player trying to convince me to take 2 of these to camp in a corner behind Aegis Defence Lines. Yes they will be really effective if he is dumb enough to bring troops into range of them(esspecially Rapid Fire) but at 300 points per squad once you add ADL with a Gun they are a lot of points for a unit with almost no mobility and with the exception of DL's and Quad-guns can be easily avoided by not using that table quater.

Even at 2000 points running two of these would be almost a 3rd of your points total for a scoring unit that cant grab objectives you didn't place behind them and could be easilly tied up by a small multi assult of strong CC's

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mockingGrass
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 08:00

I tried one of these in a 1,250 point match against the Imperial Guard today. Initially, I planned to use them mostly as a deterrent and for area denial while my Wyches did the bulk of the killing, but they were left with nothing of significance to kill for two turns when the battle shifted away, which was quite a waste.
However, they did win the game for me in the later stages of the game when I was able to redeploy them into range. They broke a heavy weapon team holding an objective as they moved into range, and then wiped out a squad of veterans and then thirteen Guardsmen from a combined squad despite having lost around a quarter of their number.

I know they didn't make up their points value, but I personally feel that they were valuable in that my opponent was hesitant to advance on my objectives and pretty short on space. They even won the game for me by spreading out in the last turn and claiming three objectives. It was also very comforting having a large squad still intact near the endgame while my opponent's forces were all weakened by my failure of a large assault wave (three transports blown up in one turn, and two squads pinned!). If I had been a lot smarter with them and had them firing the whole game, I feel like they would have done a great deal of damage.

I know you guys have been saying that such a squad would be ineffective, but I personally feel like the squad performed fairly well and was pretty survivable as well, especially since they were skulking around at distance. I think their survivability might have been helped a lot by the fact that the Wyches jumping around the opponent's front lines made them seem like less important targets, but I will definitely be trying a twenty-man squad again. I'll definitely be smarter in using them next time!

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 08:30

What about using them from webway, to grab enemy base?

Join a Farseer with Divination to them. Thats far better way to up their shooting potential and get better defense from Overwatch. Many of the divination spells makes this unit much more fearsome. And you can always have Primaris power for really good buff.

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Ben_S
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 16:38

@mockingGrass wrote:
They even won the game for me by spreading out in the last turn and claiming three objectives.

Were you playing 5th edition or do you just mean contesting three objectives? Because units, even of 20, can no longer claim multiple objectives in 6th.
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Krovin-Rezh
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 22:31

@Azdrubael wrote:
What about using them from webway, to grab enemy base?

Join a Farseer with Divination to them. Thats far better way to up their shooting potential and get better defense from Overwatch. Many of the divination spells makes this unit much more fearsome. And you can always have Primaris power for really good buff.
Nice out-of-the-box thinking on this.

The only issue I would have with it is this:
1. As a single large unit, you can only shoot a single target with it when you are approaching rapid fire range of a lot of the opposing army's forces.
2. The unit is going to be good at overwatch; however, you can't depend on overwatch to stop everyone. Once the first unit gets through, the whole squad is toast.

So I'd be surprised if you get more than a single turn of action out of them.

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Moomastermoo
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 19 2012, 23:54

I have been using 2x 20 man warrior squads in my 1750 point games. The squads have 2 splinter cannons and a sybarite clocking in for 210 pts each.

I have found them to be both highly ineffective and ridiculously awesome. I generally just play ridiculously aggresively with the rest of my army, using warriors to snag objectives, blow apart straglers, defend against deep strikes.

Ineffectiveness: The rest of the army is very mobile and the warriors cannot reposition fast enough to stay with the rest of the force, they are also super squishy and killed very easily. On top of this, they are vulnerable, they stand out as an easy point of attack that you're opponent can focus on, and they cannot move out the way,so you either abandon them or stay and fight, limiting your movement.

Also, rather awkwardly, when zooming forward with an assault army, you're in melee with the closest units and warriors are often out of range for many turns, and they are pretty pricey to be doing nothing for multiple turns.

Effectiveness: Thats 40 bodies on the table. In cover, they are pretty hard to shift, in cover with FNP and you've actually got really decent staying power. Considering our vehicles are also made of paper, most guns that can kill warriors take out tanks, and if you're talking mass str3 weapons then thats probably an infantry blob which gets massacred by warriors.

With the changes to rapid fire weapons, they get out a lot of shots at range and if they ever get in rapid fire range, you're laughing, especially against assault units as 40+ shots followed by 40+ overwatch is rather silly. One way I use my warriors is to rearguard ravagers, if a unit deepstrikes to reararmor shoot my vehicles, then they get rapidfired to oblivion.

Having lots of lances/dissies is awesome, and some squads like attack bikes etc can get whittled down to a low model/wound count very fast, warrior long range shooting can knock out the last few to snag FNP.

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Crowbar
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 03:49

sounds interesting, I would love to try this out. I was deep striked by a dreadnaught flamer today and i almost pooped my pants.
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Setomidor
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PostSubject: Re: 20 man Warrior units   20 man Warrior units I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 20 2012, 11:44

@Crowbar wrote:
sounds interesting, I would love to try this out. I was deep striked by a dreadnaught flamer today and i almost pooped my pants.

Why? He shouldn't be able to toast more than 6-7 Warriors, tops. That's ~50 points worth of kills from a 160 pt unit that will die during your turn... Twisted Evil
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