could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies?
Posts : 95
Join date : 2011-11-04
|Subject: could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies? Wed Aug 15 2012, 18:15|| |
Yes i know its fantasy, but that´s not important the importance is its structure in which it reminds a lot of Thors Dark Eldar tactica guide.
I wanted to know if we might work together to make a similar guide with all the different opponents we might face?
So instead of looking through 10 different posts on how to beat a certain unit we just look up the unit in the guide with the basic strategy on how to beat it.
Anways is it possible and does anyone want to help make it?
Posts : 133
Join date : 2012-02-12
|Subject: Re: could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies? Thu Aug 16 2012, 20:41|| |
I would help, offering all of my learning about the prey of realspace and beyound i have gained in my foray into the depravities of the dark eldar. In short. Yes, i will try help.
For all my enthusiasm i am no pro, and i can honestly say i havn't face all of our enemies/prey. So i wont be able to do whole army tactica's by myself, but i maybe able to add to other peoples. I can regualarly play against the following armies with little forwar planning and i might be able to play test stratagies:IG, Tau, BA, SM, CM, DoC and dark eldar. Other armies come and go.
I will offer all i can. The dark city tactica is looks dissappointly dry.
Posts : 131
Join date : 2011-05-18
Location : Arizona
|Subject: Re: could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies? Fri Aug 17 2012, 20:43|| |
It's funny, because I was working on something similar as a side project.
GENERAL ARMY CONCEPTS
With open-topped fast skimmer transports, eldar jetbikes, jump infantry sporting hit & run, beasts, and many units with fleet at our disposal, the Dark Eldar are easily the most mobile army in the game. This is helpful in a variety of ways.
They can reach objectives more easily.
Not only can they get to one before most enemy units if we want (it's not always best to do this unless it's a well defended position), but this also gives the units more freedom to move around the battlefield hitting other targets and making use of more terrain, all while still within range of denying or capturing objectives later on in the battle.
Most of the time, their units should be able to charge the enemy when and where they want.
This allows you to not only get the charge bonus, but also to tailor your targets to suit the strengths of your units. It even allows you to make sure you overwhelm a specific target or area of the battlefield, taking fewer losses as key threats are quickly dispatched. But remember that most of your units must stay alive and maintain their mobility for at least one turn in order to use these powerful abilities!
Their units can typically fly over terrain, have move through cover, or are skilled riders who ignore difficult terrain entirely.
This allows them to make better use of the obscurement these pieces of terrain provide while being minimally slowed down. And since almost every Dark Eldar unit requires a cover save to have a decent chance of surviving enemy shooting, it is imperative that any player wishing to use them learn how to make the best possible use of terrain pieces with the positioning of their models. Yes, they have little to no defense against most basic firearms such as bolters, let alone more powerful guns like assault cannons. Pay close attention to where your units are, or they will be back in the box before you can blink twice!
Here are a few helpful tips for using cover:
- If you have a hand in placing terrain on the battlefield, make note of which pieces will be most helpful for your units and use those spread out around the middle of the battlefield. This is where you will be able to make the best use of it. Also, place any objectives you can in those pieces that offer good protection, rather than out in an open field.
- Raider transports, a common staple of the army, are quite tall, but they can have a slim profile if facing towards the enemy, so any solid and tall terrain piece will be great for them, even if it is not more than 4 or 5 inches wide. Keep tabs on where the Raider's facing lines extend out from its corners and where the enemy units can move to. You want them shooting from within the regions facing the part of the vehicle that is impossible to see. Positioning the Raider broadside to the enemy can often give an open line of sight for its forward pintle-mounted gun while fully obscuring its side facing for a better cover save. If you want it to be around later in the game, don't worry about the shooting and point it straight behind the terrain to be completely out of sight of many enemy gunners.
- Shooty infantry prefer terrain that doesn't fully obscure, but still offers a good cover save. They want to maintain line of sight to and from the enemy, not only so they can shoot, but also so they can have as many basic models visible and in front of the special guns as possible to prevent the most important part of the squad from being picked off. Waist-high barricades are optimal, and ruins or hills are often quite good for this, depending on the terrain features.
- Assault infantry prefer fully obscuring terrain. They are not interested in shooting, so the chance to get closer to charging the enemy without being seen is much more important than gaining a cover save. Remember that they cannot assault when they have just exited a building though. Long sections of walls or cliffs are ideal for sneaking up close without being spotted.
- Pick cover that confers a higher cover save whenever possible (hills, ruins, cliffs, buildings, walls, trenches, etc.), as other armies with good armor and shielding may well pick lighter cover (razorwire, trees, shrubbery, fencing, etc.) to maximize their advantage.
- Add impassible terrain whenever you can. Not only does this allow you to make better use of your ability to fly right over it, but it also restricts the enemy units' movement options.
- Try to get smaller pieces incorporated into area terrain. A few bits of junk, or a crumbling wall become an area of ruins, or a few shrubs and rocks become area terrain rough ground. They each only give a 5+ cover save, but a troops unit may often be better off forgoing a turn of shooting if that means it goes to ground for a lovely 3+ save (or 2+ with stealth!). Especially useful when nearby or on objectives, but even when they're not, it's good when the enemy waste more shots on a unit that is cheap and does not pose as much of a threat.
Death by a Thousand Cuts
This phrase refers to the way Dark Eldar units that can generate a large number of poisoned attacks. Splinter cannons, carbines, pods, rifles, and even pistols can together put out so many poison shots that enemies with more points invested in high toughness often fall quite easily. Similarly in close combat, Wracks and characters with cheap venom blades just try to make their enemies take more saves than their defenses can easily deflect.
Darklight & Dealing with Vehicles
Most every Dark Eldar force is going to be packing several blasters and dark lances, maybe even a few blast pistols. The way these work is actually somewhat similar to poisoned shots, except that they are used against vehicles instead of everything else. What makes them similar is that they can both deal with any type of vehicle(DL)/non-vehicle(poison). However, while we have tons of poison shots for cheap, we usually pay many points for adding lots of darklight to our armies. This means fewer shots in the grand scheme, and that means it is better suited to taking out a few key vehicles, however well armored they may be. They are not good for dealling with lots of cheap and expendable vehicles.
For that, we rely on a few things. First is the new rules for mission objectives. Now that a unit has to get out of a transport to capture or contest that location, we can focus on those key targets mentioned before and effectively avoid the cheap transports until the passengers get out. Then just blast the squad and assault it. If you didn't do something silly like go for an all-out attack against a wall of transports, then there should be plenty of Dark Eldar left to destroy a few enemy units or at least deny their objectives.
Another way we can deal with multiple cheap vehicles is with assault. It's not the best choice, because our units have to reach them, getting shot at at least once, plus overwatch. Still, it can be done. A few units can take haywire grenades, the very best in vehicle assault destruction. Even if a tiny squad of 5 haywire-toting models gets to the vehicle, it is likely wrecked from hull point loss. Other units are S4,5,6, or even 7, and they usually have more resiliency as well. When assaulting with any of these units, try to always do one of two things: either surround one transport filled with a squad (it will be trapped and die when the vehicle wrecks), or try to line up a charge to hit multiple vehicles. Obviously, more models make the unit better at either of these jobs, but the surround can be assisted by any other fast unit you have in range.
Posts : 95
Join date : 2011-11-04
|Subject: Re: could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies? Sun Aug 19 2012, 00:56|| |
Yes something like that
But i was thinking kinda like a tactica guide with this build up
Yes something like that
Here´s what I was thinking a Tactica guide could be build up like this:
The name of the army this tactica is about(nicknames are also welcome, hey we all need a good laugh from time to time).
Here the army´s various strengths are listed basically what kind of hazards we would be up against
An example could be Tau in which chase the army strength would read something like this:
The Tau excel in range combat most of their units are tailored to shoot an enemy to pieces before it can get into close combat with its troops.
Here´s basically described the army’s various weaknesses basically what we as a Dark Eldar player can exploit in order to win in a battle against them.
Continuing with Tau it could read something like this:
A Tau army´s main weakness is that they don´t do well as a general principle in close combat.
Sure Tau have a few close combat troops in the form of Kroots, but else the general rule of a Tau army is that once a Tau army gets into close combat it usually dies.
Army´s unit breakdown:
Basically here we analyze each units giving a small description of they do (maybe if you want to go a little further you could also give a likelihood on seeing this unit in a tournament army, but it’s not really needed as such) and assess their threat level to the Dark Eldar:
Low: If there´s nothing else to shoot at or go into close combat take these on, even when fully geared out with the best gear they can have they are really that big of a threat. Given the Dark Eldars glass jaw even the lowliest of enemies can still be a threat, but in a battle they have absolutely the lowest priority out of all the enemies.
Normal: These units are more of a threat and can become a nuisance if left to alone for too long. In battle once you have taken care of all the high and extreme threats these units should be your primary focus.
High: These units can be a real threat if not dealt with swiftly, if they are in range shoot them. In battle the only other units that should take precedence in priority above these are the extremes; focus on taking these units down the moment your able.
Extreme: Want to lose the entire battle in a single round maybe two? Then all you got to do is leave these units to do what they do best to your army. In battle these units are Alpha and Omega they have top priority and you need to take them down yesterday, otherwise they can tear your army to pieces before you even get started.
I imagine that we will go by the standard model in unit descriptions
The HQ plus special characters
Various Psychic powers available to the army:
If the army has any Psychic powers or other nasty things available to them (I’m assuming that psychic powers work like magic in Fantasy, that we in each round get a number of power dices, to cast the psychic power and “dispel dices” which we use to “dispel” a psychic power, plus each round our power and dispel dices are restored) give a short description of what it does and its threat level
Again same threat level as with the units:
Low: It can go through , only if you have dices to spare should you focus on resisting it.
Normal: If the opponent is not casting anything else this round, yes you can take it down.
High: Only if you haven´t taken any loses any you don´t have any dispell dices left should this one be allowed to go through.
Extreme: Don´t even think about letting this one go through burn up all your dices if you have to, but stop this one from going through.
Strategy for beating the army:
Here we give a strategy on how to beat the army what to do what no to do, what units and equipment works well against it and what units and equipment doesn´t work so well.
Again a Tau example could read like this:
Going toe to toe with the Tau in a shooting match is generally a bad idea, a Tau army generally have better armor then you and as such can last much longer then you in a shooting match.
Focus on taking out their Hammerheads and Gunships first and then go to town on their Fire Warriors and Vespids in close combat.
If able avoid close combat with the Kroots, these units are made for close combat and as such have a good chance of actually winning in close combat so instead play nasty and shoot them to mincemeat before they have a chance to get into close combat with your troops.
What Troops to use against a the army.
3 Ravengers loaded with 3 Dark Lances each should be more than enough to take care of their Hammerheads and Gunships
Venoms and Raiders are perfect for getting your troops into close combat relatively fast and make your opponent hate you.
Wynches and Incubi are great close combat troops and as such are great for taking care of many of the Tau troops.
What units shouldn´t you use against the army
Grotesques may be good against other armies but here they are wasted don´t use them in your army if you can avoid it.
Mandrakes they don´t work in any competitive army and they don´t work here either use your points on something else.
A good build against the army:
Basically giving a suggestion on what an army build to take on this army could look like.
Now this is just an example and it’s probably wrong on several accounts, but this is basically how I imagined a guide could look like.
It gives detailed information about each unit and could perhaps give a better basic overview, on how to deal with the different armies of the Warhammer 40.000 universe.
Sure there are cases where people will face special lists and as such need special advice on how to deal with that list, but this one should more or less be the basic guide that tells of what each army is like and how we should go about beating it.
Posts : 185
Join date : 2011-10-11
|Subject: Re: could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies? Sun Aug 19 2012, 06:15|| |
The scalability of a Dark Eldar army is an interesting issue. The army obviously scales great at lower point levels all the way down to 1000 points, still being able to fit in a sample of pretty much any unit you want to take. Obviously at higher point levels that are significantly in excess of 1500, Dark Eldar end up just duplicating units with too much redundancy. Of course, allies changes all this...
|Subject: Re: could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies? || |
could a similar tactica be made for the Dark eldar enemies?