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 Reavers! What do you guys think?

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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
Mushkilla

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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 12 2012, 06:44

Yes, they always get a save. As for the FAQ that is from the old-pre 6th edition part that was copy-pasted, the same part that says dropping a void mine doesn't count as firing a weapon etc. You will also not the poor quality of the FAQs, there is nothing unclear about how reavers work from the rule book and the codex, so the FAQ is quite irrelevant.

Hope that helps Smile

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Allandrel
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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 12 2012, 07:59

Where does the FAQ say that Reavers can't turbo-boost 36"?

All I can find is the amendmetn that removes the Reaver-specific rule regarding turbo-boosting, which means a Reaver's turbo-boost speed defaults to that in the main rules. And the main rules state that Eldar Jetbikes (explicitly including Dark Eldar Jetbikes) turbo-boost 36".
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 12 2012, 10:16

I think its a unit of 9 Reavers for me, Champion with Power Spear.

What really changes for them is that we have much more control about their movement and killing.

In 5th we had to move in straight line when bladevaning, which often left them in a very vulnerable position.
Now we have that 12 move that we can chose direction and only them turbobust.

Next thing is that turboboost now done in the shooting phase, which means we can have control of pain tokens.
Shoot something, and then finish it off with Reavers in the same Shooting Phase. Free pain token. And thats why unit of 9, to maximise worth from this move. Rinse and repeat.

Close Combat, well now that we can have Power Lance its stupid not to take it. Equal or Better then agoniser for 10pts less on the charge. Thats a solid option for a challenges. They are all about first contact killing and finishing units, and this Power Lance is just about it. S4-S5-S6 on the charge with combat drugs they can safely kill or scare characters.

Reavers have about same as Wyches damage output in CC, but can stand overwatch and have more T. They are better at killing ranged units in cc, then wyches.

4+ Cover awyas have been metnioned and its great. Hydras dont overrule it anymore.

They are expensive, but at least now i know for what do i pay points, and why they are in the Battleforce. Really all-round unit.

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tlronin
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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 12 2012, 10:58

@1++ wrote:
As for my question above, I too cannot see where armour saves are not allowed to be taken to weapons that strength is double toughness. The BRB states that weapons that are AP- will always allow an armour save, so a T3 model can take his armour save to Str 6 Caltrops?

I think we have the 5th too much in mind. In 6th you get an armour save now. Nowhere in the BRB could I find that you wouldn't. Wink

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Crisis_Vyper
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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 12 2012, 14:34

@tlronin wrote:
What do you mean with the AP1 remark?

This answers your question;
@Starstrider wrote:
I would hazard a guess at Crisis_Vyper's comment referring to AP 1 now giving a +2 modifier on the vehicle damage table, making heat lances rather potent.


@Starstrider wrote:

However, I too am struggling on the decision of what to drop to fit them in. scratch

My army is so lean that I need to truly break it apart to put in Reavers, that's how bad my situation is. No

It's like asking a marathoner to suddenly build muscles to go into weightlifting for me.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 13 2012, 10:42

@Azdrubael wrote:
I think its a unit of 9 Reavers for me, Champion with Power Spear.

What really changes for them is that we have much more control about their movement and killing.

In 5th we had to move in straight line when bladevaning, which often left them in a very vulnerable position.
Now we have that 12 move that we can chose direction and only them turbobust.

Next thing is that turboboost now done in the shooting phase, which means we can have control of pain tokens.
Shoot something, and then finish it off with Reavers in the same Shooting Phase. Free pain token. And thats why unit of 9, to maximise worth from this move. Rinse and repeat.

Very true, and a very important part of getting the most out of reavers.

@Azdrubael wrote:

Close Combat, well now that we can have Power Lance its stupid not to take it. Equal or Better then agoniser for 10pts less on the charge. Thats a solid option for a challenges. They are all about first contact killing and finishing units, and this Power Lance is just about it. S4-S5-S6 on the charge with combat drugs they can safely kill or scare characters.

I have had a few games with the Power Spear and it's good, but I would say its stupid not to take it. Firstly it has a huge caveat to it's use, you need to get the charge. Sure reavers are mobile, but bladvaning can often leave you in a situation where you might get charged, in these situations the Power Spear is as good as a regular CC weapon. Against less armoured foes the benefits are mostly lost. Finally it's vulnerable in drawn out combats.

Two rounds of combat with the Power Spear against power armour (assuming you get the charge):

1st------2nd---Total
1.33 + 0.25 = 1.58
1.33 + 0.22 = 1.55
1.25 + 0.22 = 1.47
1.5 + 0.27 = 1.77

Two rounds of combat with the Venom Blade against power armour (assuming you get the charge):

1st------2nd---Total
0.64 + 0.49 = 1.13
0.74 + 0.56 = 1.3
0.69 + 0.56 = 1.25
0.64 + 0.49 = 1.13

So taking into account the increased cost, the caveat of use and that the Venom Blade is better against anything with a worse save then 3+, a 2+ save, and anything that depends on T for it's survivability I wouldn't say it's stupid to not take a Power Spear.

@Azdrubael wrote:

4+ Cover awyas have been metnioned and its great. Hydras dont overrule it anymore.
It still get's ignored by hydras as they have been FAQed to ignore Jink saves.


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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 13 2012, 15:34

My mistake, my last game we saw that the FAQ removed the line that said they can turbo 36", then looked to the rule book where it said jetbikes turbo 24" and didn't realize the line for eldar jetbikes turbo 36" naturally.

I posted the 2 points that came up for me that game in hopes that they would be helpful for others to learn from my errors but it seems that a 3rd point would be don't assume the FAQ is logical ;P.

I now have no idea why the FAQ removes the 36" piece

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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Reavers! What do you guys think?   Reavers! What do you guys think? - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 13 2012, 17:50

Quote :
So taking into account the increased cost, the caveat of use and that the Venom Blade is better against anything with a worse save then 3+,

The point about Venom Blade is that you cant reliably challenge characters with it to scare them or kill them. Space Marine Sergeant can safely roll some 3+. With Lance you are either killing them or scaring them.
And for lower saves Lance ignore 4+ armor in all rounds, so thats still better then Venom Blade while killing say Aspect Warriors.

Quote :
Finally it's vulnerable in drawn out combats.
If you get in one with Reavers, thats tactical mistake. Reavers need good shooting support.



Quote :
It still get's ignored by hydras as they have been FAQed to ignore Jink saves.
Yes they do, but they fire at them only as Snap Shots, cause they aint Flyers, Skimmers, Flying Monster Creatures.

Quote :
Firstly it has a huge caveat to it's use, you need to get the charge.
Well, with 18 safe assault range, you surely wont recieve it often.
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