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 Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 01:01

I was just wondering if the Hekatrix leading Wych units perfed weapon was still the Agoniser or has anyone had succuss with other weapons?

Also, I have been trying to figure out what sort of Wych Weapons I should field, I have 3 sets of weapons currently. I was thinking the Hydra Gauntets are the better way to go.
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Baron Tordeck
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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 13:54

Moved to Discussion as this is not a Rules Question

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 14:49

I still like the Agoniser, as it allows the Hekatrix to take out Sargies in challenges and just put a dent into marines.

Some people prefer venom blades, which I will admit are cheap and easy. Also while they dont go through armor, they do pile up the wounds.

I will also give some credit to the power lance, as its a worse Agoniser, just cheaper.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 16:10

The thing I have noticed is that it's harder to run wyches as an agoniser with 10 ablative wounds. The hekatrix can get singled out quite easily with a only a 4+ look out madam.

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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 16:45

Taking into account that Agonisers are a little nerfed vs TEQ. I will be testing Venom blade + Blast Pistol.
Sure the pistol hasn't a great range but it can help vs transports and lone MC/IC's.

Doing some math on the charge vs MEQ:
Venom Blade: 0,56 unsaved wounds
Agoniser: 1 unsaved wounds

Sure the Agoniser looks better but if you divide this by their cost:

VB: 0,11 W/P
Ago: 0,05 W/P

A VB gives you points to by 1,5 wych or 1,25 HwG wych.

If you add the result of 1 wych to the VB= 0,72 unsaved wounds.

So you can see the gap really isn't that big. Taking into account that this is the worse case for VB vs Agon, I'm really thinking about dropping those Agonisers all together.
VS T3 and less AS the VB becomes more effective.

Sure the fact that you can deny the AS and secure that wound might be what keep combat resolution good for you. So it depends quite a lot on your local meta what option is the best.

Personally I only played a couple 6th edition games but in my experience Wyches really makes me believe that Wyches aren't that CC specialist they used to be in the former codex and in 5th. Any squad that has some rapid fire weapons can tip the combat resolution in their favour. For reference: 8 bolter marines will kill almost 2 wyches. If you take Defensive grenades and FnP, you can reduce this to 1. But that would cost at minimum 60 points!
The problem is that those wounds count for combat resolution, and the fact that raiders will be typically more that 6" away from their payload, their upgrades can't help no more to keep the squad locked in combat.

All this together makes me believe that 5 wyches squads with HwG are the most competitive build in 6th. This squad is very capable of killing vehicles and walkers, sure they won't survive any incoming fire but at that low point cost you should have plenty targets to offer your enemy.

It has become a long mathhammer answer but I hope it helps.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 16:57

Mushkilla wrote:
The thing I have noticed is that it's harder to run wyches as an agoniser with 10 ablative wounds. The hekatrix can get singled out quite easily with a only a 4+ look out madam.

with a 4+ LOS, as well as a 4++ 5+ on the wounds to begin with, its harder than it looks to pick her out. Also with step up and all that good combat stuff, you just have to make sure she cant be singled out. That being said it is possible, just highly unlikely (unless that character keeps rolling that 6 to hit in combat)

As for the VB vs AG debate, my one thing is you are paying 15 points to completely ignore that armor save roll. Sure, Mathhammer says they are close (and by all means, I am a mathhammer guy) but you must remember that every roll is an equal chance of passing/failing. Sure, Mathhammer says that for every 4 wounds you do to a marine squad, you should kill 1, but we all know that is a simplified version of that. with 4 rolls on the armor save of a MEQ, he has the same 33% chance to fail, just like the 66% chance to pass. That means that he could simply surivive all 4 wounds, or lose 4 marines. Everything is all about the chances. The ability though to take one chance out of the equation is powerful indeed. Its the reason why flamers cost points (as they auto-hit) and the same goes for power weapons. Personally I feel it is worth the extra points to take that chance to survive out of the opponent's hand.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 18:47

Shadows Revenge wrote:
As for the VB vs AG debate, my one thing is you are paying 15 points to completely ignore that armor save roll.

Until a challenger steps up wearing artificer armour and you realise you've paid 20 points for sod all. 20 points was for a weapon that could kill termies and shield drones and the like. Now that it can't, it's far too expensive for me.

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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 19:00

The thing is now, we have all the options that Power Weapons bring us - I'm of the belief that one of those will eventually become the 'win' choice for Wych loadouts.

Also, despite what 2+ does nowadays...I am not expecting Artificer Armor to appear all over the place regardless.

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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 05 2012, 10:36

El_Jairo wrote:
Any squad that has some rapid fire weapons can tip the combat resolution in their favour. For reference: 8 bolter marines will kill almost 2 wyches. If you take Defensive grenades and FnP, you can reduce this to 1. But that would cost at minimum 60 points!

The problem is that those wounds count for combat resolution, and the fact that raiders will be typically more that 6" away from their payload, their upgrades can't help no more to keep the squad locked in combat.

Quote :
This includes all wounds caused during the fight sub phase. -BRB page 26

Overwatch takes part during the charge sub phase so does not count for combat resolution. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition   Wych / Hekatrix Weapons in 6th Edition I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 06 2012, 14:34

Barking Agatha wrote:
Until a challenger steps up wearing artificer armour and you realise you've paid 20 points for sod all. 20 points was for a weapon that could kill termies and shield drones and the like. Now that it can't, it's far too expensive for me.

Currently what Sergeant can take 2+ armorsave? I can only think of two (Wolf Guard and Necron Lord) both of which just means you have to take care of them a different way than charging your wyches in. Most things that are in 2+ armor, are too busy sitting in the middle of their deathstar, and is something wyches shouldnt be assaulting anyway.

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