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Mangobango11
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PostSubject: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 21:39

So I am curious about Grotesques now that wracks got more squishy. 3 in a Raider with a Heamy would be a nice assault unit but is it eclipsed by other options in the codex?
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csjarrat
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 02 2012, 09:09

they look pretty decent to me mate. high strength, good toughness, multi wound, multi attack. only thing that sucks is the models!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 02 2012, 10:00

A few people have been discussing Grotesques with an Aberration with a Flesh Gauntlet. Basically the Aberration will wound anything on a 4+. If it's T5 or less it also gets a reroll to wound. If it's T4 it wounds on 3+, T3 or less, 2+. If you add Urien to the army and get the S increase, that improves even more.

Sadly I hate the models so I really don't want to use them. I do have some old Ogres somewhere that might be begging for a conversion though.

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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 02 2012, 16:54

I'm building mine out of Fantasy Minotaurs with left over parts from my two cronos models.

I've seen some with the Fantasy Vampire Count Vargheists / Crypt Horrors.

I think I agree on the Flesh Guantlet idea, you never know when your opponent will have a juice target for instant death

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 02 2012, 20:03

Oh yea, Flesh Gauntles are poisoned weapons (unlike the Agonizer). And with the new rules, poisoned weapons wound on X (ie. 4+ or 2+), unless your own strenght would let you wound better. And you also get a reroll if you strenght is higher than the target's toughness. So an Aberration would wound most things on 3+ or 2+, get rerolls to wound, and instagib anything not EW. Combined with fnp now effectively being a 5++ save for them (as long as you don't get hit by s10 or instant death), I can see Grots being quite powerful, really.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 02 2012, 20:25

@Nomic wrote:

Oh yea, Flesh Gauntles are poisoned weapons (unlike the Agonizer)

Yeah agonizers would be worth considering this edition if they were actually poison weapons

@Nomic wrote:
I can see Grots being quite powerful, really.

I would be so tempted to say "Om Nom Nom Nom" every time the aberration kills something. Smile

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Mangobango11
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 02 2012, 23:05

Yeah I was looking at the Vampire Counts Crypt Horrors, and they could be stand ins. Also yeah nasty combo with Uriel! I might as well just count my Heamy as a Uriel in freindly games and stick him with three in a Raider with Aethersaills to plop them right in their face!

Also yeah poison has definitely gotten better it seems! I am going to have lots of fun with the Flesh Gauntlet set-up!

Edit: Now that I say that it doesn't sound that friendly though...

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meepnight
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 03 2012, 15:20

I always though Rat Ogres with a steel mask would be an easy enough conversion for grots.

I always wanted to run a squad of 4 with either an archon or hem leading them in a raider. I think the unit has become even more essential in 6th. It has a high T and W that it can soak up a lot of enemy fire a high enough strength value to pen the back of vehicles.

I think they stack up well in comparison to our other elites. They are also our best option to fight terminators in CC. They cost less than an individual termie and can probably beat them 1 on 1.
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Roc
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 03 2012, 15:40

For all the reasons mentioned above, they have a role in 6th edition. In fact, I've been running my Archon with them fairly regularly, and that T boost plus the SF has gone a long way towards keeping him alive.
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Setomidor
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 03 2012, 21:55

I found some very nice Grotesque conversion here, and I'm ripping those right off!

An idea of mine that I would like some feedback on is running Grots and the Baron in the same list, either having the Grots in a raider and join them up with the Baron just before assaulting something or by having them arrive together through a WWP. Once the sweethearts reach combat, I can use the Barons 'Hit & Run' move in the opponents turn to disengage with the Grots and ZOOOM over the table; first a 3D6" disengage move (with re-roll), then 6" normal move, and then another 2D6" assault move. Average distance is no less than 26"!
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 03 2012, 22:43

@Setomidor wrote:
I found some very nice Grotesque conversion here, and I'm ripping those right off!

Oh hell yeah! I'm having me some of them!!

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Mangobango11
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 03 2012, 23:56

Well it seems I will be putting less wyches in and use the Grotesques more as assault units.
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Roc
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 01:12

@Setomidor wrote:
I found some very nice Grotesque conversion here, and I'm ripping those right off!

An idea of mine that I would like some feedback on is running Grots and the Baron in the same list, either having the Grots in a raider and join them up with the Baron just before assaulting something or by having them arrive together through a WWP. Once the sweethearts reach combat, I can use the Barons 'Hit & Run' move in the opponents turn to disengage with the Grots and ZOOOM over the table; first a 3D6" disengage move (with re-roll), then 6" normal move, and then another 2D6" assault move. Average distance is no less than 26"!

I've been waiting to try this for a little while now. If this does work out, let us know how it works. I've been working on a 3 turn combo-- H&R w/grotes, skip to reavers for 2+ cover save, then off to support something else. I know the grotesque/reaver placement will work, but I had not put Baron in the list yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 10:41

@Roc wrote:
For all the reasons mentioned above, they have a role in 6th edition. In fact, I've been running my Archon with them fairly regularly, and that T boost plus the SF has gone a long way towards keeping him alive.

I've been flicking though the codex looking for something different and just thought of this idea. How many Grots do you run Roc?

4 Grots, 1 as Abberation w/ FG = 170.

For the pts you get; Pain Token (FnP), 12 T5 Wounds, 16 S5 Attacks on the charge. As everyone's charge ranges are now the same, the lack of Fleet is less of a concern (IMO) as we can now Turbo Boost our Raiders a further 6" than in 5th.

Run these guys w/ an Archon, Power Axe, SF, Drugs and pack them in a Raider and zoom them up the table. Your Archon benefits by getting FnP and T5, coupled with the SF is quite nasty. Kinda feels like you could just walk these guys out of a Portal, withstand 1 round of shooting then charge right in......
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Setomidor
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 10:54

I've posted an armylist here with the Baron and a unit of Grots, let me know what you think Smile

@1++ wrote:

4 Grots, 1 as Abberation w/ FG = 170.

For the pts you get; Pain Token (FnP), 12 T5 Wounds, 16 S5 Attacks on the charge.

This is almost exactly what I plan to use, but I've added a Liquifier Gun and an attached Haemo in a Deep-Striking Raider with Aethersails. Deep-strike at a fail-safe distance and then use the Sails to drift in a use the Liquifier Guns immediately. The extra Pain token means they're also hitting at S6 instead of S5 when they engage in combat!

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 11:17

I like the ideas being suggested here and it is sounding quite appealing. Only two things stopping me. First, the same same single model. I abhor the way Rat Ogres look and Ive heard from my friend on ATT that we might be getting some more with the Voidraven. Second is that whenever I fielded them I would be mortally afraid of meeting a Vindicator or a Battle Cannon. The thought of my 200 point unit being downed in one go would just be depressing...

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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 12:06

@Lord Clazaryn wrote:
The thought of my 200 point unit being downed in one go would just be depressing...

Yes but this is true for every unit in the game, esp against bunched skimmers. Don't let 1 tank put you off trying something out, esp when it makes your Archon better.

Anyway, reserve these guys, use Ravagers, Reavers, Scouges, Trueborn and even Haywire Wyches to kill the Vindicator.

Also yes good call on the Liquiifer, from wound allocation POV. I truely can't see a better unit that can escort your Archon into battle, and making him Tougher at the same time. Definately worth a shoot from about 1500pts upward
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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 12:33

Sorry to ruin the party guys but the liquifier wont work. First, after using Enhanced Aethersails, both the vehicle and the passengers can't shoot. Also when deepstriking, the vehicle counts as moving at cruising speed. Moving at that speed, you have to snap shot and flamers can't snap shot. And with retrofire jets you can't disembark so no matter what you do, that deepstrike liquifier wont work unless you have the duke.

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pehldog63
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 13:18

At my next tournment, I plan on running a unit of 4 grotesques with the Abberation and FG, a archon with power axe, and Heamy. Now with two pain tokens, on the charge I get a lot of strenght 6 attacks. I'm a little worried about the strenght 10 vindicator shots, however, the big worry is Grey Knights and their instant kill force weapons.
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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 15:48

Battlecannon is "only" s8,soit won't ID Grots. Vindicators do, but they have a short range and typically a single gun (except the Guard Demolisher, but who uses that when you can get Hydrae and Valkyries).

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 16:01

if I was to run them, I would do 4 Grots, 1 w/ Liquifer; Aberation w/ Scissorhands or Flesh Gauntlet (I havent run the numbers onto which is better, but Im leaning more towards the extra attack...) w/ Haemie w/ Liquifer, Power Weapon, and Archon w/ Power Axe, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, PGL. This way your squad has 4 T5 bodies, a T4 body, and then a T3 body. You have a challenge machine (Archon) that gives everyone grenades, and you have a ton of attacks, with the haemie coming through for some AP3 goodness.

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Evil Space Elves
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 16:13

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
if I was to run them, I would do 4 Grots, 1 w/ Liquifer; Aberation w/ Scissorhands or Flesh Gauntlet (I havent run the numbers onto which is better, but Im leaning more towards the extra attack...) w/ Haemie w/ Liquifer, Power Weapon, and Archon w/ Power Axe, Shadowfield, Combat Drugs, PGL. This way your squad has 4 T5 bodies, a T4 body, and then a T3 body. You have a challenge machine (Archon) that gives everyone grenades, and you have a ton of attacks, with the haemie coming through for some AP3 goodness.
+1^
I regularly use a similar setup(I just use a venom blade for the Aberation, just a personal preference) and have found them to be a fun and effective unit. If they don't kill their points worth, they typically tie up more than their points worth and distract their opponents while your fast and fragile units are freed up to take objectives.

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Setomidor
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 16:16

Lord Clazaryn: you're right about the sails, good catch!
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KabaliteSon
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 17:02

I've thought about using them as a Deathstar in a Flesh Carnival list with Urien. But at 2k, where other people will have ridiculous lists as well. But the idea was to take 8-10 with Urien always out in front moving up the board to use Look Out Sir to allocate wounds evenly. Urien gives one of his D3 Paint tokens to make his unit fearless and if you can spare make the S6. Give the Aber a FG and he's wounding T6 MCs on 3's with rerolls on the charge. And there is enough attacks in there to multicharge 3 tanks and open them up. They also have the strength to damage Necron rear armor. You can let Urien take a wound per turn as well because he can just regen it.

I like the idea of using Baron with them for hit and run. Might be cool to run a beast unit in front of them to give a 4+ cover on the way in, and draw some fire. Its going to take loads of shooting to bring them both down. I think they've gone up in usefulness because of hitting vehicles on 3's alone. You gotta kill that S10 blast early though. And people will probably bring it to deal with stuff like Nob Bikers and Terminator armor. Also anything rolling against leadership will probably kill them outright as most of it is S8-9.

You can always toss a farseer in the unit, go divination and try to get the 4++ or Misfortune your target. And you can always fall back on the Reroll Hits. I'd keep a Haemy in the squad for the pain token.

So I'd say upsides is they are now great at killing vehicles, look out sir benifits them, Fearless buff is great when they're tarpitting. Thats my two cents. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Grotesques??   Grotesques?? I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04 2012, 17:17

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
I regularly use a similar setup(I just use a venom blade for the Aberation, just a personal preference) and have found them to be a fun and effective unit. If they don't kill their points worth, they typically tie up more than their points worth and distract their opponents while your fast and fragile units are freed up to take objectives.

Thats how i used them in 5th and they worked a treat!

Ive been reluctant to run them in 6th since the nerf of Archon CC weapons AP (except for the I1 power axe), cover, FNP and FC. Im now rethinking this.

After the raider is popped how do you deploy this unit? Archon with SF out front to use Look out sir wound allocation?
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