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Dark Son
Hellion
Dark Son

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Join date : 2012-07-28

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PostSubject: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 16:03

If this has been covered elsewhere, I apologize, my search fu is lacking, but what are y'all's standard Razorwing loadouts? I was thinking (since I have the points to burn) 2 necrotoxin/2 shatterfield, ns, ff as kind of an all comers 'wing. If I go against flyers I've got 2 Str 8, and if I'm lucky 2 Str 7 shots to shoot at them with, and still have nice large pie plates for infantry, and if I don't, I've got the same to go against well, everything else. I tend to have alot of TEQ and MEQ in my playgroup so ap 5 generally might as well be ap -.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 16:11

Blasts can't hit flyers so you can't use missiles against flyers.

I take them with stock missiles and disintegrators (as they are more of an anti-infantry craft).

However I am experimenting with two lances, and shatter shard missiles for an anti transport role. Those S7 large blasts are pretty funny against large groups of clustered transports.

PS: Flikerfields are must! It goes without saying.

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Dark Son
Hellion
Dark Son

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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 16:31

Thanks Mushkilla, wasn't aware that you can't hit flyers with blasts, haven't faced any yet, what armor do flyers hit vehicles on, whichever facing they're in? Sorry for the "duh" questions, holding off on getting the rulebook until I know whether it'll be in the box release.
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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 16:39

It's resolved against the armour value facing the firer.

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Seshiru
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 16:46

If you are going to pay for missile upgrades, the void raven is worth considering over the razorwing

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Dark Son
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 17:23

Thought about that, just not sure if my league would allow me to use it as "counts as" since I don't have enough money to convert it yet, plus if it's coming out in less then a month I'd rather wait. However the "make a Wd check or DIE!" missile (implosion?) looks like a horrificly large amount of fun, even if they are 30 pts per. 2 of them and twin shatterfields looks like it could be a good anti vehicle/elite infantry killer.
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Azdrubael
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 01 2012, 20:50

2 Shatterfield, Splinter Cannon. Dual-role for me.

For Vehicles fire Dark Lances and Shatterfields, for Infantry Splinter Cannon and Monoscythe.\\

Quote :
If you are going to pay for missile upgrades, the void raven is worth considering over the razorwing
I dont agree, you will be paying premiere cost for same.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 02 2012, 09:42

if you want the voidraven to hunt flyers, then it is wort taking over razorwing, for higher S lances.
I do love them, but they are way to expensive now for infantry killing, although the implo missiles are fun Smile
For AA viodraven with flickerfield, for AI, rawozring with disints, s.cannon and shatterfields for me.

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Lightcavalier
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07 2012, 15:00

I have been running a pair of Razorwings with stock missiles, dark lances, splinter cannon, flickerfield and night shields.
They dovetail nicely when I bring my voidraven...hurrah for 3 jets at 1850

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Aceblitzkrieg
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07 2012, 22:11

May I ask why run Flickerfields any more? We always get a 5 up jink save now. I understand that there are some things out there that ignore cover, but honestly how many of those things do you expect to see?

Also with night shields, the true effectiveness went out with pre-measuring! If they cant shoot at what they want to shoot at then they will just aim at another target!

But hey that's my two cents Very Happy
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Dark Omen
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07 2012, 22:49

Flyers do not get Jink like Skimmers
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Siticus the Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07 2012, 23:19

Flickerfield is a must on Razorwing. Evasive maneuvers? Loss of precision shooting for a turn just to save our tails? I think not, rather pay 10 points and always keep shooting.

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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 01:48

IIRC, you can't shoot Blasts or Large Blasts while you are Snap Firing, so Evading decreases your offensive power as well.

I have used the FF, MM, DS (Flickerfield, Monoscythe, Disintegrator) Razorwing, but I'll be trying out 2 Dark Lances and a Splinter Cannon in my 1250 league. Since it's the only flier I can afford pointswise, I want it to be able to add on AI or AT power to my army's shooting. I would recommend running at least one if not the majority of your Razorwing flock with Lances, as the frustration at being unable to do jack squat against a meched-up enemy is unparalled, and it's risky/terrible to dump the entire rest of your army to demech before the birds arrive.

My two pain tokens.

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 06:45

Shatter shard is pretty powerful against parking lot rhinos/raiders/falcon/chimeras etc.

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Rathstar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 09 2012, 16:57

Unless you have loads of anti tank I think the best load out is:

2 Dark Lances
Twin-linked Splinter Rifles
4 Monoscythe Missiles
Flickerfield

My reasoning being:

Lances: You've already given up the slot that is normally filled by a ravager that is on the board turn one, so unless you list is filled with anti tank I'd take the lances. However 6th edition has given us improved way to kill vehicles in the form of haywire grenades. If you have multiple wych squads and multiple trueborn sqyads with haywire you may feel that you can sacrifice the lances for disintegrators (I still wouldn't recommend the splinter cannon upgrade, as I'll explain next).

Splinter Rifles over Cannon: In 5th edition I would have considered the splinter cannon, particularly if complimented by disintegrators, however zooming flyers can only fire 4 weapons a turn, and can only fire 2 missile a turn. Therefore if you come on turn 2 you will probably fire the 2 wing mounted weapons and 2 missiles. If you don't zoom off the board you will probably fire the same weapons again turn 3. Therefore the earliest that you will fire the splinter cannon is turn 4, however that is unlikely, as you will probably have lost a turn either by not turning up till turn 3 or zooming off the board for a turn. I think it's likely that you won't fire the splinter cannon till turn 5. I just don't think the splinter cannon is worth it for how often it will be fired in addition to the wing mounted weapons. The splinter cannon may be fired earlier, eg. a weapon gets blown off by damage, or you are firing at a target that it would be better than one of the wing mounted weapons, but how often this will happen does not warrarent spending the points when they could be spent better elsewhere.

Monoscythe Missiles: These cost nothing extra while the tempting shatterfield missiles cost 10 pts each. Ignoring other upgrades consider a razorwing upgraded with 4 shatterfield missiles is 185 pts, while a Void Raven with 4 shatterfield missiles is also 185 pts. There is the issue that we don't have a Void Raven model, but I would advise against upgrading the missiles as 10 pts per shot is too much for the small increase in efficiency. Not to mention the Ap5 of the monoscythe means it's better against a number on number of non-MEQ targets. If you have 20 pts spare I can see adding two shatterfield missiles, but once a Void Raven model is available I would never use shatterfields on razorwings - if you can afford the 20 pts to have 2 shatterfield missiles on a razorwing you can probably find 20 more points to have a Void Raven with 4 shatterfield missiles.

Flickerfield: A nice cheap upgrade that will allow the razorwing to take a 5+ save against hits without diving, and having significantly reduced shooting the following turn.

As with most DE units keeping it cheap (155 pts or the basic 145 pts if you forgo the flickerfield) is the best way forward. Well that's my opinion, but everyone's opinion is formed by their own experiences, so let me know what you've found to work.

Rathstar

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The following quote is from around 6th edition, how have things changed Smile

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Jehoel
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 10 2012, 06:25

@Rathstar wrote:
however zooming flyers can only fire 4 weapons a turn, and can only fire 2 missile a turn.

Now I'm confused because doesn't the razorwings aerial assault rule allow it to fire all of its weapons even at cruising speed?

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Lord Clazaryn
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 10 2012, 07:26

Nope, the FAQ updated it so Razorwings no longer have that special rule, you just ignore it and use the flier rules in the rulebook.

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Rathstar
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PostSubject: Re: Razorwing loadouts   Razorwing loadouts I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 10 2012, 12:31

The restriction that you can only fire 2 missile a turn is the real killer. Coming on from reserve and unloading all four missiles was very effective in 5th edition, plus it took the razorwing down the opponent target priority list once you explained that it couldn't do that again. Now we open up with 2 missiles and 2 wing mounted weapons, and if the opponent doesn't like it he knows he's got to do something otherwise he gets the same thing the following turn.

We'll have to be more careful with the razorwing the turn it comes on, so it has a good chance of unloading the remaining missiles the next turn.

Rathstar

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The following quote is from around 6th edition, how have things changed Smile

@sweetbacon wrote:
You're spending 225 points on Wyches???

Wyches?!!

Why?  

Did someone threaten your family?  

Are you under duress right now?  

Blink if you are and I'll summon the authorities.
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