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 Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question

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Hellion
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PostSubject: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:20

Hello all. I'm focusing on my DE for 6th having been playing tyranids for a long time.

Coming from tyranids my experience using vehicles is very limited. I was reading through the vehicles section in the 6e rulebook and it seems to me that even with our superquick fast skimmers you can only move 12" at cruising speed. If you want to go any faster you have to use flat out in the shooting phase and therefore give up any opportunity to shoot.

So, we either go 12" and shoot, or up to 30" (inlcuding the 18" flat out) and don't shoot at all. Is this right? I kind of expected to be able to move faster than a landraider and still shoot a bit, is all.

Please tell me I'm missing something..?
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:24

Never be sorry to ask! Very Happy

@Guidebot wrote:

Please tell me I'm missing something..?

Unfortunately you are not missing anything, that being said ravagers can move 12" and fire all their weapons, which is still pretty impressive. The flat out movement is also a handy tool as it is done in the shooting phase so you can take into account all your other shooting before deciding to shoot some more or reposition.

Hope that helps Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:31

@Mushkilla wrote:
Never be sorry to ask! Very Happy

@Guidebot wrote:

Please tell me I'm missing something..?

Unfortunately you are not missing anything, that being said ravagers can move 12" and fire all their weapons, which is still pretty impressive. The flat out movement is also a handy tool as it is done in the shooting phase so you can take into account all your other shooting before deciding to shoot some more or reposition.

Hope that helps Smile

Oh. Ouch. I had imagined being able to go at least 18" and still carpet some fire out of my venoms.

Well at least, as you say, you can assess the impact of shooting before deciding whether to shoot more or flat out other vehicles.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

Any tips for how to line up an assault from a DE transport these days? It seems that the vehicle can only move 6" if you want to disembark now! I had planned on using wyches in a raider and against guard/ tau will probably want to assault with warriors from raiders and venoms at some point.
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:34

move6"disembark and move 6", shoot, assault 2d6 av. 7"
its strange though that we can only move 6" after disembarking, when with fleet we can move 8" normally. Dosent fleet chage the distance we can move after disembarking?

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:42

@Enfernux wrote:
move6"disembark and move 6", shoot, assault 2d6 av. 7"
its strange though that we can only move 6" after disembarking, when with fleet we can move 8" normally. Dosent fleet chage the distance we can move after disembarking?

Hmm as far as I can tell fleet just lets us re-roll any of the dice for running or assaulting. No extra movement as such.

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 13:22

yep, fleet lets you re-roll dice. no assualting after running either. but if you roll say a 6 and a one for charge distance. you can re-roll the one and get quite a mighty charge range now.
because you wont be running as much, you'll actually get to use your wyches bs skill now :-)
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 13:33

And those nifty plasma grenades. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 13:46

then why do i remember fleet increasing movement from 6 to 8? This is just so in me, its a big problem i cant bring BRB and dexes to work Sad But this i just feel is right. Look at movement, not assault Very Happy

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Mushkilla
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 14:19

@Enfernux wrote:
then why do i remember fleet increasing movement from 6 to 8? This is just so in me, its a big problem i cant bring BRB and dexes to work Sad But this i just feel is right. Look at movement, not assault Very Happy

Why would increase movement to 8" when you disembark? It doesn't increase your normal move to 8". So why would it be special when getting out of a transport? Maybe you were thinking of the pancake edition?

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 14:29

i suspect the confusion came from disembarking. you got a 2" disembark move, followed by a 6" charge for a total of 8" previously.
in the new edition you measure your move from the hull, keeping your base within the 6", hence losing the 2". you do get +2D6" for higher potential charges to offset it though.
this has nothing to do with fleet mind you!
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 17:35

@Enfernux wrote:
then why do i remember fleet increasing movement from 6 to 8? This is just so in me, its a big problem i cant bring BRB and dexes to work Sad But this i just feel is right. Look at movement, not assault Very Happy
Pancake edition. Fleet was still useful in that one.
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 17:49

@Mandor wrote:
Fleet was still useful in that one.

I don't understand that mentality. Fleet though different this edition is still amazing:

1) You can shoot before you charge, this is great for wyches because of plasma grenades and their pistols.
2) Every army that doesn't have fleet now got a lot worse at charging (to give you an idea fleet through difficult terrain is better then a normal 2d6 charge).
3) Being able to re-roll one or more dice means that fleet makes charges a lot more reliable. One the of the biggest changes to assault armies in this edition is how unreliable charges are, fleet means you get to benefit from the increased charge range whilst having only a very small chance of failing those 5" or less charges (which happens more often then you think when you don't have fleet).
4) You have an average threat range in 6th of 6"+9" = 15" with fleet ( fleet has a 57% chance to charge 9" or more). Fleet last edition had an average threat range of 15.5", so there is no difference!

Fleet is without the doubt, the best skill a combat unit can have because it gives you reliability on the charge.

So stop moaning and get raiding! Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 20:13

average threat of 15.5 in 5th? 12" move, 2.5disembark, 3.5 run, 6 charge= 24" in average not 15:P
now 6+6+8 with fleet reroll is 20" average.

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 21:02

@Enfernux wrote:
average threat of 15.5 in 5th? 12" move, 2.5disembark, 3.5 run, 6 charge= 24" in average not 15:P
now 6+6+8 with fleet reroll is 20" average.

I was talking about fleet, fleet has not changed in terms of how far you can charge. What has changed is transports, which is nothing to do with fleet. Read my post next time. Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 21:05

i read it, and you said average threat range, not fleet range on foot. Threat range can be modified. Re-read your post next time, then mine Very Happy

for ex. your threat range with a ravager isnt 36", but 48".

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 21:19

@Enfernux wrote:
i read it, and you said average threat range, not fleet range on foot. Threat range can be modified. Re-read your post next time, then mine Very Happy

for ex. your threat range with a ravager isnt 36", but 48".

True, but I know you're clever, so I assumed that you would read 6+9 as move 6" and charge 9" rather then "silly mush he forgot the transport!". Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 21:23

nonono, i would read it like move6disembarkmove6shootcharge8 Wink

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 31 2012, 11:01

@Enfernux wrote:
ts strange though that we can only move 6" after disembarking, when with fleet we can move 8" normally. Dosent fleet chage the distance we can move after disembarking?
You can't exactly run 6" after disembarking.

You can put every model at most 6" away from your disembarking points ( which means the whole vehicle as a DE ).
Then, you can move up to 6" but you have to stay at most at 6" away ( the unit I think, not every model ) from the disembarking point (= vehicle again ). This just allows to have more flexibily on how to disembark your unit, you don't actually get the 6" full range + a 6" full movement phase.

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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question   Sorry to ask; a basic vehicles question I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 31 2012, 11:09

ahh, ok, that just scks. Thanks anyway Very Happy

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