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Enfernux
Wych
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PostSubject: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 20:28

Ok, i just scaled through the first 3 pages and found nothing on topic with orkz.
Say, what do we do, against 3*9 boyz and 1 nob with PC, 8 boyz 1nob PC and a Mec CFF in iduno the name of their transport, but all are in that, 15 stormboyz 1 leader with PC, boss pole, 7 and 3 bikes 1 nob each PC, 15 lootaz
that is 1.5k. Someone have any ideas? Please??

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 20:48

well a couple of things...

A. They cant run 8 boyz and 1 nob, minimum squad number is 10, and what were all the boyz armed with?

B. Need to know the type of transport, since theres a HUGE difference between a Trukk, and a Battlewagon, a trukk can only hold 10 models, so im guessing it was a Battlewagon? did it have a deffrolla?...

C. Was the stormboyz leader a nob or Zagstruck?

----------------------------

Don't waste points on expensive elites. Take some bloodbrides with razorflails, and a syren with either a vblade or ago. Alternatively, some harleys.

Vaneblading over lootas does really well, but your opponent has a lot of them. I normally try and focus on taking them out first, since they really have the ability to reach out and show some love. Lots and Lots of poison.

Against orks, you have to use a good balance of both shooting and CC, and despite appearance, CC works really, really well, since you won't find a ork shooting that isn't in cover, and DE is just ever so slightly faster, so you should normally get the charge, even against their melee units.

You're not going to have more models on the board, but orks arent especially difficult. Lots of splinter fire, couple of units of wyches, and some elite assault units and you should have the game in your pocket.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 21:03

yep, had deffrolla
s.boyz leader a nob
well i just got struck by the 4 fast ot transports, when i only have 4 unites of wyches, and they are needed to help the incubi...guess i'll have to rethink my army, huh? Sad Not totally, just partially...
i wish trueborn would be able to carry HWB Twisted Evil

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Cavash
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 21:10

I think Reaver swarms could help you, although they would take up a large part of your army. A couple of large squads could cut up the Boys and use their AT weapons on those darned transports!

Otherwise, I'd say that, from experience, the best way to deal with Orks is the shoot them to death before they reach you.
That always worked against my Orks when I had a short stint with them, even though I didn't have many.

Also, have you tried Ravagers with Disies? The number of shots should be great for thinning out units before they reach assault range.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 21:26

Cav, you are talking to the one who used dissies far before 6th ed came out...man XD
i dont want to buy reavers...they are awesome, but they just drop my kabal-cult business to a remake.

edit: well, anyway, thanks on the ideas...i will consider them...seriously, i will Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 21:30

Enf, you're not the only one who used them before sixth. I did, too, especially when I knew that they always got rid of more points than my Dark Lances ever did.

I can understand your aversion to buying Reavers, especially if they don't fit into the teme and how expensive they are for three.
It's a shame. Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 23:38

Like I said, don't be fooled. Assault works wonderfully on orks, esp if they have shootas, instead of sluga/choppas

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 23:42

@Ruke wrote:
Like I said, don't be fooled. Assault works wonderfully on orks, esp if they have shootas, instead of sluga/choppas

Well, as usual, Shoot the choppy and chop the shooty works well!

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 00:09

Vect, 8 bloodbrides (3 razorflails), and a syren (venom blade) will DESTROY any ork unit it touches...

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 00:13

Well, tht just sounds outrigh violent against most things!

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 00:23

well, its just the problem that they are in transports, and the only thing i can wreck'em with are wyches, what i use to tie down assaulters on one side, and assault-aid on the other...if all are tied in cc with unites coming out of the transports, i cant assault the lootaz.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 01:26

There's no way they were taking more than 1 battlewagon in a 1500pt list with everything else you listed... Be super careful of the deffrolla, those things are brutal to the 10th degree... But, HWG are easily the best way to wreck those bad boys, that's what I did, even in 5th.

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 05:54

@Ruke wrote:
Like I said, don't be fooled. Assault works wonderfully on orks, esp if they have shootas, instead of sluga/choppas

Depends on the size of the ork unit, if you charge a 10 girl squad of wyches at a 30 man squad of shoota boys the wyche's will get blasted to bits before they even get to atk(thnx a lot overwatch...)
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 08:58

@callofdoobie wrote:
@Ruke wrote:
Like I said, don't be fooled. Assault works wonderfully on orks, esp if they have shootas, instead of sluga/choppas

Depends on the size of the ork unit, if you charge a 10 girl squad of wyches at a 30 man squad of shoota boys the wyche's will get blasted to bits before they even get to atk(thnx a lot overwatch...)

Not as bad as it sounds. Assuming you have two transports and two squads A (anything) and B (wyches).

1. Drop squad A off near the shoota boys, in a line.
2. Drop squad B off behind them.
3. Shoot with squad A and B.
4. Charge with squad B through squad A, getting a 5+ cover save (4+ if you brought a phantasm grenade launcher).
5. (optional) charge with squad A.

Overwatch is no longer scary, assuming a 30 man shooter boys unit without even taking into account the damage of your own shooting (plasma grenades!) they will on average kill 3-4 wyches.

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 09:50

@Mushkilla wrote:
Overwatch is no longer scary, assuming a 30 man shooter boys unit without even taking into account the damage of your own shooting (plasma grenades!) they will on average kill 3-4 wyches.

Not being funny but, Overwatch taking out 40% of your squad before you even get into combat is not scary? Mad

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:08

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@Mushkilla wrote:
Overwatch is no longer scary, assuming a 30 man shooter boys unit without even taking into account the damage of your own shooting (plasma grenades!) they will on average kill 3-4 wyches.

Not being funny but, Overwatch taking out 40% of your squad before you even get into combat is not scary? Mad

I can't remember the last time my shoota boys were at full strength when they were charged.

My example was a worse case scenario, even taking only the one unit of wyches shooting into account before they charge would reduce that to 2 casualties. Considering a mob of 30 shoota boys is one of the best overwatch units in the game I think that's pretty good!

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:22

well...30 shootas all with rapid fire weapons have 60 shots, 10 hit, 6.67 wound, 3.33 unsaved from cover, 1.11 unsaved from cover and fnp, so usually 30 boyz shoot, 1 wych dies.

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:32

@Enfernux wrote:
well...30 shootas all with rapid fire weapons have 60 shots, 10 hit, 6.67 wound, 3.33 unsaved from cover, 1.11 unsaved from cover and fnp, so usually 30 boyz shoot, 1 wych dies.

It's 2.22 dead even with 4+ cover and FNP (unless you've somehow got 3+ FNP).

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:36

still, only 2 dead from 60 shots Very Happy

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:44

@Enfernux wrote:
still, only 2 dead from 60 shots Very Happy

Sounds good but remember that's the absolute best possible outcome and relies on you being <8" from the orks, in cover, with a PGL and a pain token.

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:49

no, this is an average result, not the best, the best would be like noone dies Very Happy

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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 10:54

@Enfernux wrote:
no, this is an average result, not the best, the best would be like noone dies Very Happy

Fair enough. Best possible situation then, assuming average dice rolls.

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 20:14

Charging through another squad gives you a cover save from overwatch? I have a hard time seeing how that works, if the people you play with let you pull that off than good for you, I don't see that flying in the store I play at, and if somehow they did agree to it you would have to count it as an assault through difficult terrain.

Also you would be in essence sacrificing a squad; cause whichever squad in your scenario doesn't charge is gonna get annihilated the next turn, I just don't see charging wyches at huge squads with rapid fire wpns(20 cron's, 50 guardsmen, 30 boys, etc) a viable strategy anymore.

Bear in mind I am saying all this under the assumption you are charging a unit at full strength; obviously any squad is nowhere near as scary once they have been shoot down some.
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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 20:20

30 boyz shooting is 6.67 wounds you may roll to save. Incu with pfp token. 1.48 unsaved.

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PostSubject: Re: Crashed on WAAAGH!   Crashed on WAAAGH! I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 30 2012, 20:35

Well Incubi murder anything that doesn't have 2+ armor Laughing plus over watch is a joke to them cause of their awesome armor.

Anyway it just seems like a lot of the strategies you guys are saying for charging are situation, what if they don't have a pain token yet and you didn't get it from drugs? What if there are flamers in the unit you are charging? What if a SGT decides to hit your hekatrix in the face with a bolt pistol rnd on over watch? There is just an endless amount of variables. On average charging wyches at infantry has gotten very very sketchy(the price we pay for being able to melt vehicles at will..................... Twisted Evil) you have to pick your charges much more carefully now.
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