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 What I would like to do with my DE....

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kulver
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PostSubject: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 04:48

Being completely new to the army (just picked up the codex today) I am trying to adjust my normal Blood Angel mentality and figure out how to run a decent DE force...

HQ- I'm thinking of using a Archon with a couple Haemonculus supporting and making sure my CC oriented squads start with pain tokens.

Elites- From what I see the elites give me decent CC options. Incubi and grotesques look pretty interesting and I'm thinking of using them for the in close dirty work. I love the look of Wracks and Mandrakes but I'm not sure they would be of much benefit.

Troops- For the most part I will be facing Necrons, Marines and Space Wolves so I'm thinking that Wyches will get chewed up and spit out. So, for troops I was going to use Kabalite warriors and focus on their firepower. Hopefully, they can thin out some of the infantry threat as well as take out vehicles with dark lances. I know they won't be ideal at the latter.

Fast Attack- I'm fond of Scourges and Reavers.

Transports- With the low armor and the way all of my normal opponents can shred vehicles mercilessly (even more so in 6th) I'm not sure that I should even bother with any. I know this cuts down on the DE speed considerably but I'm also not confident in anything mechanized lasting beyond the first or second turn.

Heavy Support- I really like the Talos engine and want to work one or two into my list.

So, what I would like to know is if using the options I mentioned could form an effective core for my force? Most of my choices I made purely on the aesthetics of the models (which is what drew me to DE in the first place) but I'm willing to dump anything if need be. I appreciate any advice I can get.
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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 05:41

A Dark Eldar army without 9 transports? Blasphemy!

But, seriously, it's fine to make an army that does not all ride in vehicles. I would still recommend you consider them, though. The Venom and Raider both have efficient and long range shooting power, and transports are good for certain units. Incubi and Wyches and particular rely on the speed of the transports to move aggressively Turn 1-2 to allow an early assault on good targets. However, if you're getting shot up, slowing down your board progress and really picking apart one section of the opponent's army at a time is key.

Now, transports are usually the way to do this, as you can deploy one way, then move around at your leisure, including redeploying your entire army Turn 1. The 12"move+36" range of the transport gun is also great. There are other options, though. Choosing to go second has its benefits, as you can react to your opponent's deployment and choose one flank to focus on. Reserving units lets you briing them on the piece of the board where you need them most- the Webway Portal is still a piece of equipment worth respecting, especially you can drop 2 and keep your opponent guessing which you'll deploy from. The Talos and Reavers both love the Portal, as they either have short range shooting weapons and like to be closer to perform more complicated Bladevane attacks (I would always go Reavers over Scourges. They have so much more utility).

Again, I bring up transports being a strong choice, since a transport lets you bump a Turn 1 Portal drop an extra 6" closer. Sticking an Archon with some Grotesques and a Haemonculus carrying a Portal is an alternative for a Turn 2 drop. It's a bit awkward if things come on that Turn, though.

In general, there are some units you like that I would recommend a transport for (Incubi with an Archon) some that are solid on foot (big Warrior squads, Grotesques with Haemonculi) some that are just golden (Reavers) and the Talos, which you can support with a Portal or run solo, whichever works for your style. I would not recommend Wracks, Mandrakes, or Scourges unless you had a very specific goal for them. I would recommend Kabalite Trueborn wielding Dark Lances, though; more efficient than Warriors with a smaller footprint to hide in cover.

I think other forum members will share their own unit recommendations, so soak in all of the opinions and try to find the truth of it. Welcome to The Dark City, and Dark Eldar!

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Enfernux
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 09:37

@CaptainBalroga wrote:
A Dark Eldar army without 9 transports? Blasphemy!
i second that.

well, depends on what you want to do with your army, shoot, assault or balance out. I can mostly help, with the second.
I use 2 detachment lists, for more haems Smile
If i want to be cheap, i use 3 haems, 1 incu with klaivex, 2 wyches 1 gunzboatz, reavers or scourges - got the models, just need to paint em now :S - and flyers, since glances can rip a vehicle apart, i use razorwings now. The other detachment is the same Very Happy And all my unites are in transports...well, aside from the scourges/reavers.
The only thing i am missing in this configuration are grenades for my incubi
So basically haem with liquifire, 8 incubi, 1 klaivex with demiklaves, raider with ff, sails and disintegrator.
2 times: 8 wyches, razor flail or shardnet, 1 heka with venom blade pgl, all haywire, haem with liquifire, raider with ff, sails and disintegrator.
10 warriors with a cannon in a raider with ns, racks, disintegrator.
3razorwings with ff and disintegrators, some times i upgrade the missiles to shatterfield Smile

some might say that this is a balanced list, for having a gunboat per detachment...meh, idgaf XD

P.S. i only have 8 transports Razz

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kulver
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 11:50

Thanks for the input. It looks like I will have to rethink my anti-vehicle policy in this new edition of the rules. I guess if I load up the board with them some will make it through the hellish fire from his Necrons (those guass weapons are murder). I did want to use the portal for bringing in the Talos and reavers. I'll drop the scourges for now most likely and focus on beefing up my warrior squads. How do you guys feel about the Sslyth to go with my Archon? Or should I just dump him with some Incubi?
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 11:58

there are discussions about what to take and what to leave, honestly, i only will use a Lhamhean as my archoness, others are: court is over priced for what they do, the only thing that gives a boost is the bonus to poison, but put in a venom blade for 5 pts and you wond on 2+.
I(!) am gay for incubi, so i vote take them instead of court Very Happy

anti vehicle? Wyches with haywire, 5 wyches will glance a dread to death, even have a chance to kill the land raider, 2.77 HP per turn. 60 pts to almost kill a 250+ mobile bunker with termies in it...yes please Very Happy

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 13:05

I would say be careful about focussing only on elite cc units, if you only take incubi etc than they're not going to last long. Throw in a unit or two of wyches and your opponent has more of a target priority headache. Hellions are also a decent cc choice, particularly if you take the baron to make them a troops unit.

As you mentioned facing necrons I'd look to take a ravager with disintegrators, they've got a good blend of mid-strength to give you decent wound rolls against lychguard and praetorians, and they're also 3 shots each and AP2, they're also our best option of taking down terminators quickly.

Don't get hung up on the idea that DE are an assault army, they're not, we have good options for both shooting and close combat and the army works best when those are combined.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 13:11

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
I would say be careful about focussing only on elite cc units, if you only take incubi etc than they're not going to last long.
1 incu, 1 warriors, 2 wyches, as i said Razz Very Happy

P.S. i said i am an assault based player, thats why i wrote i can only help in that theme Very Happy

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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 13:17

I was responding to the original post's request for info and advice, not your personal list. Personally I'd try to have at least 1 ranged unit for every cc unit I'm taking, although obviously for one-off games against a particular opponent you can tailor what you take (for example I'd take more assault stuff against Tau/IG, more shooty stuff against orks/nids). Some units can do both, hellions are a good example, their move and splinter pods make them useful for shooting, whilst their hellglaives make them a decent cc option.

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CaptainBalroga
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 26 2012, 19:09

@kulver wrote:
Thanks for the input. It looks like I will have to rethink my anti-vehicle policy in this new edition of the rules. I guess if I load up the board with them some will make it through the hellish fire from his Necrons (those guass weapons are murder).

Necrons are currently one of those armies that doesn't very much care what you bring. Their rapid fire anti-infantry weapons can kill vehicles on 6's, and their twin-linked anti-vehicle weapons can Tesla their way to killing infantry just fine. The Dark Eldar strategy of mobility and choosing your battles can be negated by their Flier Zooming and deploying or their one Cryptek Deep Striking a unit in. As such, I wouldn't think too much about making your army fit their matchup unless they are literally all you play. That's unwise tactically and from a "I want to build my own army" sense.

As for the Archon and the Court...I don't think the Court is amazing. Yeah, the Sslyth is Toughness 5 and Feel No Pain, but so is a Grotesque, and he comes with a Pain Token for the Archon that can stack with a friendly Haemonculus for Furious Charge. Incubi, on the other hand, cleave through Marines (and Necrons!), plus can buy you a Klaivex to slice into Terminators (and Overlords!). Archon w/ Huskblade+4 Grotesques+Haemonculus gives you a big fat threat that demands attention and doesn't even care about Power Fists. Archon w/ Agonizer+ X Incubi+ Klaivex gives you a more delicate unit that wants to cleave through weakened units to slowly accrue Pain Tokens for the win. The Pain Token minigame actually tells you a lot about what a unit should be doing!

As for the discussion of "assault army", I'll go back to the Necron army for an example of a unit that an all-assault unit is just dead against- Canoptek Wraiths. 10-15 of these bad boys move in, Hammer at I10, don't care about your cover, don't care about your Initiative, don't care about your power weapons, don't care about your Feel no Pain. It ain't right, I tell you what.

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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 02:28

Currently, Necrons are indeed all that I play against. This is likely to remain that way until the new Chaos codex is released. I don't want to specifically build for them but the fact that I know they are all I will be facing for the near future is somewhat effecting my decisions. The Archon, Grotesque and Haemonculus hammer you mention, CaptainBalroga, sounds right up my alley. As for the Wyches that some have mentioned I guess I may go 2 of them with 2 large warrior squads. I do agree that they can at least serve as a distraction (and possibly serve a decent anti-vehicle role). Hellions I will take a closer look at too.
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 02:47

Get ready, new Chaos might set records for durable vehicles. (starts dusting off Defiler and painting Plague Marines) Rumors of a 5+ iinvuln and regen hull points could make for a difficult situation. I expect to see assault orientated Chaos bringing the hurt as well, offsetting the new problem with assaults by sheer volume of attacks
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 03:05

@Arrex wrote:
Get ready, new Chaos might set records for durable vehicles. (starts dusting off Defiler and painting Plague Marines) Rumors of a 5+ iinvuln and regen hull points could make for a difficult situation. I expect to see assault orientated Chaos bringing the hurt as well, offsetting the new problem with assaults by sheer volume of attacks

That does not fill me with confidence...Hopefully, a lot of the regenerating stuff will be dedicated to Nurgle which my usual opponent doesn't tend to play. Most likely I will be facing the forces of Slaanesh (which will at least be fitting).
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: What I would like to do with my DE....   What I would like to do with my DE.... I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 27 2012, 09:21

@kulver wrote:
Hopefully, a lot of the regenerating stuff will be dedicated to Nurgle which my usual opponent doesn't tend to play

but nurgle is the most fun! Very Happy
i alwayse enjoy watching nurlge players go about their stuff...its like watching 2 orkz on death world, and rolling 3 times on the encounter table...oh wait, miniwargaming did that...ah well

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