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 The Relic

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LTKage
Hellion
LTKage

Posts : 97
Join date : 2012-05-21

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PostSubject: The Relic   The Relic I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 18 2012, 09:59

Two questions regarding Mission 6: The Relic.

Question 1: If an enemy scoring unit with an Independent Character seizes the Relic and gives the Relic to an Independent Character and that scoring unit is subsequently slain, can the Character still hold the Relic?

Question 2: For victory points, it says that the Relic is worth 3 VP to the player who has seized it. If one player seizes the Relic but subsequently loses control of it, does he count as having seized it for the purposes of determining VP; and if so, if bother players seized the Relic at one point, do both players receive 3 VP?

Thank you.
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Lord Clazaryn
Kabalite Warrior
Lord Clazaryn

Posts : 128
Join date : 2012-02-18
Location : Australia

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PostSubject: Re: The Relic   The Relic I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 18 2012, 11:35

The first question is difficult. The rulebook states that "a model in a scoring unit can seize the Relic... From that point, the Relic remains with the model until it is dropped, which can happen voluntarily, but happens automatically if the model is slain or falls back." and it also says "a model carrying the Relic can transfer it to any friendly model that is part of a scoring unit if the two models end their movement phase in base contact." I would interpret that as the independent character would have to be in a scoring unit to seize or receive the Relic however from that point on it remains with him, even if he moves off and joins another unit. It only states you need to be a model in a scoring unit to pick it up but it doesn't place any constraints on then moving him about. He would only drop it if he falls back or dies. However that could be interpreted in many ways so it's anything but set in stone.

The second question seems easier but is still very valid. The rulebook says "at the end of the game, the Relic is worth 3 victory points to the player who has seized it." This could be interpreted as as 3 victory points every time it's seized however it seems to indicate that only one player can do this and also because if the theme of the overall mission, I would take seized to mean control or holds. When you think about it, what's the point of giving the win to the person who doesn't even hold the object your fighting for? After all, the entire mission is about taking a valuable item so there really would be no point giving victory person who failed to keep the item. Therefore I would take it as whichever player has the model with the Relic attached to him when the game ends gets the points.

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Darkness falls across the land, the midnight hour is close at hand, creatures crawl in search of blood, to terrorize y'alls neighbourhood.
And whosoever shall be found, without the soul for getting down, must stand and face the hounds of hell, and rot inside a corpse's shell.
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Darkgreen Pirate
Sybarite
Darkgreen Pirate

Posts : 302
Join date : 2012-01-06
Location : The Great White North

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PostSubject: Re: The Relic   The Relic I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2012, 05:20

@LTKage wrote:
Two questions regarding Mission 6: The Relic.

Question 1: If an enemy scoring unit with an Independent Character seizes the Relic and gives the Relic to an Independent Character and that scoring unit is subsequently slain, can the Character still hold the Relic?

p123, scoring units... An army's scoring units are normally all the units that come from the troops selection of the Force Organisation chart... there are listed mission exceptions etc, but I take that as fairly plain language, if the independant character is chosen as a troop selection, then it is a scoring unit. Otherwise it is not, even if it had joined a scoring unit that has been wiped out, he is no longer part of that unit.
p.39...While an independant character is part of a unit, he counts as part of the unit for all rules purposes, though he still follows the rules for characters....

So if there is no more unit, there is no more unit rules i.e."scoring" therefore he cannot take the relic, if he leaves a scoring unit he loses the scoring ability. At least, thats how I read it Smile

I agree with Lord Clazaryn on question #2, whichever player holds it at the end of the game gets the points.

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- Archon Niccolò Machiavelli
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LTKage
Hellion
LTKage

Posts : 97
Join date : 2012-05-21

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PostSubject: Re: The Relic   The Relic I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 21 2012, 01:02

Thank you both.
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Lord Clazaryn
Kabalite Warrior
Lord Clazaryn

Posts : 128
Join date : 2012-02-18
Location : Australia

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PostSubject: Re: The Relic   The Relic I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 22 2012, 11:21

@Darkgreen Pirate wrote:
So if there is no more unit, there is no more unit rules i.e."scoring" therefore he cannot take the relic, if he leaves a scoring unit he loses the scoring ability. At least, thats how I read it Smile

But I think the key here is not whether he can take the Relic while he's in a scoring unit, I believe he can because it says that any model in a scoring unit can seize and he doesn't take that ability away from them. However the key is whether he can keep the Relic after he has left the scoring unit. I believe he can for this as well because it only stipulates about seizing, not keeping.
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ftayl5
Hellion
ftayl5

Posts : 44
Join date : 2012-07-14
Location : Brisbane, Australia

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PostSubject: Re: The Relic   The Relic I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 22 2012, 12:21

I agree with Lord Clazaryn's original interpretation. My understanding of the rules is that only a scoring unit may pick up the relic but may give it to a non-scoring character joining them who keep it until he dies/ runs away, or gives it to someone else etc. There is nothing in the rules to suggest that if he leaves the scoring unit the character will be forced to drop it, it simply says only a scoring unit can be the ones to pick it up off the floor.

As for the second question the wording is unclear but to me it makes much more sense for the player ending up with the relic to get the 3VP rather than getting 3 every time they seize it. This would be nonsensical and allow players to simply drop and pick up the relic multiple times to get silly amounts of VP. I think that the rules are clearly intended to say that the player who ends the game controlling the relic wins the VP, even if the wording is somewhat ambiguous.
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