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 Look out sir and Shadowfields

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Enfernux
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 20:38

Am I correct in thinking that you can allocate unsaved wounds on independent characters onto another model using Look out sir? And if so, what happens if you fail your shadowfield save, then successfully pass your Look out sir roll? Do you still count as having lost your Shadowfield, even if you pass the wound on?

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 20:56

a shadowfield shorts out if you fail a save with it, 'nuf said.

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Tiri Rana
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 22:42

Efernux is right that a failed save always causes a shadowfield to short out, even if the wound get's negated by FnP, for example.
And even more so: An actual save has to be failed. Automatic wounds can't destroy a shadowfield.

But I don't think this is very important here, because it should be impossible to come into this situation.

It is not made very clear and is probably poorly written, but after checking and rereading it like 5 times I came to the conclusion, that the problem here are the two different ways to resolve wound allocation.
The first one is used, if all models use the same save. It let's you take a saving throw first and allocate the unsaved wound later.
The second one is used with mixed safes. This one allocates wounds first and resolves the save after that.

So it seem that an IC with a shadowfield can never have an unsaved wound allocated to it and so can never use LoS on unsafed wounds. Only on the 'not-yet-safed' wounds it is actually allocated.

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 16:42

the problem is that isnt how LOS works.

So it saves wound (even unsaved ones) can be passed with LOS

The thing is that wound allocation happens before you roll for armor saves, and LOS happen during wound allocation.

So take for example the Archon w/ Incubi got wounded with 4 bolter shots. your Archon is up in front. So you have 4 wounds that need to be allocated to him, and its up to you to choose whether to LOS them to the Incubi, or take them on him. So you have 3 options

Allocate all of them to the Archon, and roll 4 2++s
try to LOS (so a 2+) and follow the results (so roll passes against the Incubi, roll fails against the Archon)
Allocate some of them to the Incubi (so only roll say.. half with LOS, and then apply the results to both armor types)

You dont LOS after you fail an armor save

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 16:48

@Shadows Revenge wrote:

You dont LOS after you fail an armor save

you dont? Well then this ought to make things interesting in LGS Twisted Evil

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mukslinger
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 17:42

yeah, "look out sir" is done during wound allocation.

1. roll to hit
2. roll to wound
3. put all wounds into a wound pool
--> if unit has the same armor save, you may fast roll those saves and the wounds in the pool become "unsaved wounds". If you fast roll saves, ignore step 6.
4. take a single wound from the pool (normal or unsaved) and allocate to the closest model
5. if closest model is a character, opponant may chose to "look out sir"
--> success, the wound goes to an interveening model
--> failure, the wound stays on the character
6. roll saves for the model that has the wound. (skip this step, if model has been allocated an unsaved wound)
7. continue to resolve the wound on the model. (model is reduced by one wound, takes an effect, or dies, etc)
8. goto step 4, repeat until no more wounds remain in the wound pool.

Wounds are resolved from the pool, one at a time, this is important. As the attacker, you choose which wounds from the pool you want to allocate in any order you want. Think about a wound pool that includes some chainsword hits and some powersword hits, or some darklance hits and some splinter rifle hits.

The best use of shadowfield on the archon, would probably be for him to choose to take wounds, one by one, until it fades. But that really depends on what you want to do with him later.


Last edited by mukslinger on Tue Jul 17 2012, 11:52; edited 1 time in total
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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 10:50

Ok, I see now, the way they explain it in different places in the rulebook is a bit confusing. If it wasn't just incredibly wasteful on points, I'd have a pair of Shadowfield Archons to make the unit immortal Twisted Evil

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 16:52

also be careful though with stuff like Archons, as their wounds in that models wound pool passes to the rest of the squad if that model dies.

So go back to my original example of Archon w/ Incubi.

Say they get shot by a Tact squad w/ a melta and ML, and that you get 4 wounds from bolters and 2 wounds from the melta and krak missle, both of which go through your incubi armor, you decide to take the melta and missle wound on the archon, and the 4 bolters you LOS to the Incubi.

Your LOS pass, and you roll those 4 against the Incubi's 3+ armor, and they pass all 4.

Now you roll that Shadowfield, and your Archon rolls a 1 on the melta and gets IDed, now that Krak wound is allocated to the next closest model, which just so happens to be a hapless incubi...

Wound allocation is tricky now, but it also makes you think about what is more important. Also there are some nice bullet bending tricks already out there... its going to be interesting to see how wound allocation ends up as the edition ages.

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mukslinger
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 19:14

Shadow, It looks like you are hybriding the rules for speed. which is ok, but keep in mind that each wound from the pool are handled one at a time, at the attackers discresion. Your example is essentially correct, though.

(4 bolter wounds, 1 ml wound, 1 krak wound). M=marine, I=incubi, A=archon, ----> is the direction of fire to your line, lol.

your example would presume that the line looks like this: M----> A I I I I I I

also that the attacker allocated bolter wounds first, one at a time. each time you opted to los the bolter wound and succeeded. the incubi you los'd to succeeded their saves. Then the archon was allocated a melta wound, opted not to los, then failed his save, died. therefore the remaining wound in the pool being a ml wound would go to the next closest model, an incubi.

I'll put up another example, just to mix it up, lets say the line looks like this: M ----> I A I I I I

I as the marine player look at my wound pool and pick up a bolter wound (remember as the attacker I can chose which ever wound I want, could have easily chose the ml wound if i wanted), and allocate it to the closest model, in this case an incubi. your incubi can't los, so he must make his saving throw, lets say he passes. So i pick up another wound from my wound pool, and since im bitter about him not dying, i allocate the krak on him this time, and he dies.

now, your archon is the closest model, and wanting to cause him some hurt, I happily grab the melta wound from the wound pool and allocate it to him. This is when the archon can choose to los or not. he decides not to los, and takes his save and fails, and dies. now all the wounds in my wound pool are just bolter shots and all your remaining models are the same, so you can fast roll those saves, if you fail any you would remove wounds from your models one at a time starting with the closest model.


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Sig121
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 15 2012, 22:09

@mukslinger

You have to resolve a wound group before moving on to the next. In your example of assigning the bolter wound first, you would have to finish with all the bolter wounds before moving on to a krak missle wound. Multiple wounds of the same strength and AP are put in groups. The shooter picks the order that the groups are applied, but a group is applied as a whole before moving on to the next.

This is described in the blue text box on the bottom right corner of page 15.
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 16 2012, 12:31

Indeed, you are correct. Thanks for pointing that out, can't believe I totally missed that. I feel like an idiot, but at least I'm a better informed idiot, lol.

Thanks Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Look out sir and Shadowfields   Look out sir and Shadowfields I_icon_minitime

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