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dangerous beans
Kabalite Warrior
dangerous beans

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PostSubject: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 03:53

OK, nice and simple - sadly I'm not giving advice in this thread but seeking it: has anyone played VS the ulramarines yet? If so, what advice would you suggest? And if not then good old theoryhammer is most welcome too!

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Last edited by dangerous beans on Sun Jul 15 2012, 18:29; edited 1 time in total
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BlckRven
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 16:44

I'm cuurently working on a major armybuilder excell sheet with built in mathahmmer.... unfortunatly I expect it takes at least an other week

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Azdrubael
Incubi
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 17:06

Ultramarines is kinda very broad term.
What units are you facing?

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dangerous beans
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 18:20

Sorry, I actually posted this thread late last night whilst I had lots and lots of vodka inside my body...

I'm not entirely sure in all due truth - I don't think there will be many terminators (I hope not anyway!) in his list, it looked like a predator, storm eagle (flyer), 3 rhinos with tac squads, a fairly nasty looking assault squad and a couple of drop pods (could be wrong on that). He's not exactly forthcoming about what he's taking but I do know that he'll be using allies and these will likely be Imperial Guard.

The guy does tend to play WAAC as well (not my preferred kind of opponent if I'm honest...)

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Enfernux
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 19:03

@beans: well, WAAC...depends on the circumstances. Do i play with ppl i know, or not, do we just play for fun or not, are we playing tournament or not?
With ppl i know and/or playing for fun: i take my wych cult list with a few warriors and incubi - yep, i was wrong on being afraid of overwatch.
When playing with ppl i dont really know/are not my friends, i just know'em...i tend to be a little bit mean in terms of gameplay.
If its not for fun and/or its a tournament, you can be pretty sure i play to win as well.

He ha flyers? What do we have to? Yep, voidravens and rwjf. I would recomend 3 VRB with FF.
Rhinos and predators? Problem solved, wyches from raiders, preferably multi assault.
Assault unites? Well we have incubi...and assault unites aside from termies have 3+.
Drop pods...well if he doesnt drop in your face, than i wouldnt worry. If he does...well that could be a problem, but remember our power weapons, disintegrators.

All in all, i would use wyches tor AT, VR for AA, one or two squads of scourges, archon with 2+ lot of wounds or 4+ no armor save wounds. You could also try lelith, but she is about as effective as an archon with an agoniser vs MEQ.
Sadly, i would use the wyches for a somewhat sacrificial role as tankhunters, and if they survive, they can be used to tarrpit other unites.
Does he plan to bring librarians? If so a farseer with ROWa wouldnt hurt also. Backed up with GJB for last turn objective contesting or capturing.
Would also add in some scourges for AT safety, but thats just me. And gunboats to soften up the opponents before the incu charge in. If you want to be cheap on the shooters though, venos with warriors in'em arent a bad option either. Shoot the two flanks, so noone gets taken down pre-charge from the models in the front.

Imperial Guard, as in parking lot, shooting line, MOO cmd squad, infantry platoon or what? Very Happy

Parking lot: you have wyches and scourges.
Shooting line: even our warriors can deal with that if you charge...but lets use the wyches and the incubi, shall we Smile
MOO, as in master of ordinance...take him out quick. Each turn he lives, hes a potential threat to all DE that live!
Infantry platoon: shoot'em, cut'em, massacre'em. 'Nuf said.

this would be much easier if you would let me know, what points are you playing at Wink

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dangerous beans
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 00:31

Thanks Enfernex - those are really useful ideas matey! Very Happy

We're playing a 2k game and I have absolutely no idea what his imperial guard will be (I am praying for no flyers spam!), him as a player? I had never met him before Wednesday last week: from watching the game he was in then, I don't think he understands social boundaries or 'playing friendly' very well Wink Its not a tournament game, and its technically a friendly/fun game, but his parting words to me on Weds were "don't expect me to hold back".

I would simply LOVE to field x3 Voidravens but sadly I only have the one Razorwing at the moment to represent it: I have been strongly considering buying a 2nd however so perhaps I should do this! I haven't really used the Bombers as much in the past but I think you have a very good point about anti-aircraft stuff. The problem is that I am actually very much in love with Dissies haha!! Razz However for the sake of 1 game I think I can change that...

I mentioned that he didn't use termies in the last game, but I can forsee a unit being transported in during this one via Storm Eagle deployment. I am considering taking an Aegis Defence line with an Icarus Lascannon gun mount manned by a Haemonculus Ancient (2+ to hit!) for when it arrives/for anti Mech.

The use of Incubi sound good but I sadly only have 5 of them: I'm considering using my Talos as a Chronos instead for this game and simply fling out pain token (plus it has some good AP3 weaponry) so perhaps this unit in combo with the Incubi could do some damage...

I'll try to write up a list and post it in the armythreads and then link it from here Smile

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LTKage
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 09:14

Wow. That guy sounds like a huge d***.

I can vouch for the Farseer--it's pretty good at shutting people down. That Aegis line is going to get shot up pretty good if he's using it to deploy Terminators. It may be wise to consider a Bastion or multiple ADLs with quadguns. The Bastions are a nice way to give yourself cover.
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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 16:58

BB Marines are very shooty, so the only thing I would watch out for (other than TH/SS termies) is how many melta they can pack. NS are very good investment

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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 19:29

Ultramarines are weak. At least they were in 5th edition.

I remember setting up my Black Templar army as a vanilla list once, it got completely destroyed by Dark Eldar. Very much like a game of vanilla Chaos versus Dark Eldar, if you understand refused flank and concentrating fire, you'll shred their vehicles and torrent the survivors.

I second using Incubi judiciously, they're excellent for mopping up the survivors of a Rhino explosion.
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Enfernux
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 20:25

Arrex, they are excellent at killing them spot on as well Smile

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 15:59

@Arrex wrote:
Ultramarines are weak. At least they were in 5th edition.

dont underestimate BB Marines yet. They had all the tools to be an amazing army in 5th, and the tools havent changed in 6th. BB Marines are my second army, and while they hurt the way I play them (you cant assault after scouting or infiltrating anymore Sad ) that doesnt mean that solid builds like Vulkan or Bike Lists arent going to be good anymore. Infact I see bike builds coming out on top now, but we will have to see.

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Enfernux
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 16:31

sadly, the only good bikes eldar have are guardians. Spears are to expensive for s6 pw on assault, and mainly s6 lance for shooting what 6"?!
jetseer council is also a great point sink, but at least they can wreck face.
as for us, rjb are i think way over expensive for what they can do...besides wrecking face with turboing Very Happy

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 17:20

lol I ment bike builds for BB Marines. Considering their Command squads can become just as tanky as TH/SS termies and get can FNP. T5 not being IDed anymore by S8, and 10 T5 3+ models (1 being multi-wound) being able to score is amazing. That and their mobility is absured (not as amazing as ours, but still very decent) and that you have to be out of a tank anyway to score, BB Marine Bikers are going to be amazing

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 19:38

I had been going over my previous anti-marine tactics, and most of them are still viable and have been suggested.

One of the tactics I was sad to loose was the falling back escort, causing a unit that fell back to continue to fallback by having a skimmer close by. But this did lead to an interesting discovery. One that would be better if we could choose to sweeping advance.

Models falling back automatically fail morale tests. ATSKNF lets you automatically pass regroup tests, regroup test only happen at the beginning of your movement phase, or when you are assaulted.

So if you have a marine unit that runs from an assault in their turn, you can shoot them in your turn, force them to take morale for loosing 25% which they automatically fail, and fallback again. The thing that makes this quite a bit less effective is that you have to try and sweep, which means we are going to keep marines locked in combat most times. But it is a useful thing to keep in mind, pop a couple fleeing marines and make them run again; since we will mostly be in their half of the table there is a good chance they could leave the table.
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PostSubject: Re: Ultra annoying   Ultra annoying I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 17 2012, 20:58

If he's a WAAC, I bet his imp guard attachment is going to be Flyer spam. Thusly, I'd definitely recommend taking flyers. In regards to the marines, with the exception of terminators, I haven't seen any marine squad that can stand up to focus fire from gun boats. Focus on priority targets, make sure you can bust the tac squads out of their transports (particularly if they have meltas)

Make sure your deployment is spread out enough to make the player carefully choose where he's dropping his pods. I would keep them behind cover, but not near terrain. You want to make sure that, if the drop-pod scatters, it has room to scatter. If it has no room, then it drops right where the opponent wants it. Also, keep in mind your skimmer transport mobility. If two pods drop in the same place, get any gun boats over there to ruin his day with buckets of splinter fire.

For Melta spam, Night shields rule. They have to get within 3" to get it to maximum efficiency. As mentioned above, if you remember your fast skimmers, they should never be within 3" of you (with the exception of drop pod luck).
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