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 My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.

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PostSubject: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 08:24

http://lkhero.blogspot.com/2012/07/dark-eldar-units-revisited.html

Let me know what you fellas think either in this thread, or on the blog.

I'll cover allies next before moving on to my Kabal Primer.

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 09:44

Just a few things :
drazar is not one of the only AP 2 option, it's one of the only CC AP2 option :pp

Quote :
Besides, if you roll for +1WS, she is now WS9 and all units WS4 and under will need 5s to hit her.
That does never happen, or let's say almost never, you use your CC against an attacking ennemy only when that's the CC in majority in the unit, which means :
- all the other models are dead or all the other models but one ( that is the only real case where it could happen, but if you go with wyches they'll all have 4+ save, just not many hit points but the succubus )
- you are not within an unit -> crap save when you're not locked in CC -> suicidal move.

- You say inccubi have AP3 weapons, that's not completely true = Klaivex can get Demi Klaive -> +2S AP2 or +2A AP2
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 10:24

Thank you HB, a very good summary review, and a very positive one too. None of the gnashing and frothing that has been all too common of late.

I, too, like the Succubus. Always have and often take two of them, and I don't see any pressing need to change my wicked ways.

I do wonder about Venoms in this edition. I was horrified at how quickly mine disappeared now, and I wonder if we might see a shift away from Venom-spam. But if you can keep them alive, they are still unmatched at what they can do.
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 11:49

Venoms blew up easily in the 5th edition. Sure, I've had a game where one got chased around for 2 turns by some Thunderwolves and only got shaken, but usually if they fail the flickerfield save they're eighter dead or immobilized. Hull points doesn't change all that much.

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 12:09

I disagree on some stuff.

Firstly, Trueborn got nerfed. Blasterborn can snapfire only after their venom moved more than 6''.

Secondly, Hellions lost a lot of their old strength. Last edition, every part of the Baron+´Hellion blob got a 3+ coversave if at least 50% of your blob was in cover.
Depending on your table setup, it will be pretty hard to get every Hellion behind cover now, so ppl will just concentrate fire on the ones that are not in cover which will lead in way less Hellions getting into cc.

Scourges lost the ability to stunlock one tank very reliable in exchange for 1-2 lost hull points on one vehicle. That's okay but could turn against you.

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 12:29

@SleepyPillow wrote:
Firstly, Trueborn got nerfed. Blasterborn can snapfire only after their venom moved more than 6''.

Whereas they couldn't fire at all from the Venom if it moved more than 6" before.

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 12:58

@Count Adhemar wrote:
@SleepyPillow wrote:
Firstly, Trueborn got nerfed. Blasterborn can snapfire only after their venom moved more than 6''.

Whereas they couldn't fire at all from the Venom if it moved more than 6" before.

Nvm that point. I haz the dumb.

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 13:18

@SleepyPillow wrote:
@Count Adhemar wrote:
@SleepyPillow wrote:
Firstly, Trueborn got nerfed. Blasterborn can snapfire only after their venom moved more than 6''.

Whereas they couldn't fire at all from the Venom if it moved more than 6" before.

Nvm that point. I haz the dumb.

Weeell... Without sounding too much like a smart ass, they could disembark after 12" and shoot ofcourse. But other than that I agree with the above. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 13:24

Hi.
I had just thrown up a unit by unit review as well, and we seem to agree on a lot of the units.
But, being a new member, it wont let me post where it is, so i will copy it here.
sorry for the "wall" of text! lol

Quote :
After reading all the Doom and Gloom on dark Eldar all over the internet, and how they are useless, toast, and pretty much garbage now, I have to disagree. In many, many ways the Dark kin have become more deadly.

As Dark Eldar, our biggest strength was that we were Fast, but a glass hammer. In other words, we got there fast, and hit hard, but when we were hit back, we died. Sadly, 6th edition gave our biggest strength, the speed our army had, to every other army out there.

6TH DID however, make our weakenss even worse. Our vulnerability to small arms fire was magnified this edition with the advent of Overwatch and Snap Fire. Our Webway portals were nerfed into uselessness. Our flyers pale in comparrisson to the cookie cutter Guard and Marine versions, and going first just became SOOO important to the survival of our units.

But, What GW taketh away, gw giveth in other ways.
Dark Eldar are pretty much the only army in the game that ignores night fight. Its not that we are good at it, we just ignore it! Our nemises, the ol dreadnaught is a joke to our wyches with haywires, as we hit them on 4's, and take hull points off of them on 2's! Guard parking lots, monoliths, Landraiders, all of them are free points to our armies. Units that never before were worth a damn can now be taken... hellions, jetbikes and mandrakes (yes, you read that right, MANDRAKES) can now be useful and scary.

So... on to the Dark Eldar units, the "Webs" perception, and the truth!


Asdrubael vect-
Web- thinks the guy is useless now that his scepter is only ap3.

Reality- Asdrubael did take a hit in the ol ap department, but he became SOO much more powerful in every other way! how you ask? well...
Preffered enemy now effects the entire unit in both hth and shooting. You reroll all 1's in combat. period. Fearless also confers to the unit, so throw him with bloodbrides, they are fearless, reroll all 1's to hit and wound in shooting and HTH, can take out any vehicle or walker with haywires, have a crap ton of attacks, and he still steals initiative on a 4+. With the new JINK rules, moving vehicles before they are shot is MANDATORY. against all marines, this guy is still a killer... just avoid terminators and you are fine! He went from overpriced to fairly priced, and after 6th is played a bit, expect almost all DE players to use him.

Lady malys-
Web- thinks she sucks ass.

Reality- She sucks ass. The only small benefits is that she and her unit ignore all psychic powers, and there are a lot more of them out there now, and she MAY (I say may) be able to cheese the reserve rule by placing D3 units into reserve that normaly would not be able to due to 1/2 the army restriction. But, all in all, not worth it.

Baron Sathonyx
Web- better with the hammer of wrath rule (impact hits basically)

Reality- Better all around. His +1 to go first is huge if you have a lot of vehicles, (see vect for more info) and he comes with a grenade launcher, which grants both assault and defensive grenades. When being shot on overwatch, it gives the unit stealth (+1 cover save). Pssst... dont tell anyone, but he gave the unit stealth anyway! For his points, the fact he allows rerolls for both Initiative tests and distance for hit and run is huge.. and you want to hit and run to keep getting those impact hits. be carefull of overwatch though!

Lelith Hesperax
Web- Who? Oh, not too bad now that she has one of the three dark eldar character HTH weapons that are ap2.

reality- Sorry, but still not great. Yes, she has a buttload of attacks, yes, she can take out terminators, but in reality, she is str 3, and only has a 3++, so those termies she charged will smack her in the face with a hammer and insta gib her. She is GREAT in running down units and in challenges though! Overall- leave her on the shelf.


Kheradruakh-
Web- HAHAHAHAHA what a loser!

Reality- Hmmm... now wait just 1 second. In certain instances, he is not bad. if you infiltrate a 10 man unit of mandrakes, you can deploy this guy 1" away from them, joining him to the unit, giving them a pain token (feel no pain) opening their shooting and making them a decent unit!
However, you cannot charge anything until turn 3 at best if you do this! bu 22 str 4 pinning shots is pretty great! Unless you have a plan around him, though he is better, he is still not worth the points or effort.

Duke Sliscus
Web- Slightly buffed, not bad

reality- Agreed. He has a blast pistol, and the only named character that has combat drugs! Though short on wounds, his 2++ is great, and rerolling the drug chart is the real reason to take this guy... He should be taken in wych cults only, because any other way is a waste of some sort. His deep striking MAY, and I say MAY come in handy depending on your opponent, his army, and field saturation.

Drazahar
Web- OMG!! the best ever! holy crap!

reality- meh. He did get better, and can take out termies easily. With his eternal warrior rule, he will ALWAYS be able to take his FNP roll, if he has a pain token. No doubt, he has a lot of great abilities and can dance around the combat, and is scary bad in challenges, but man, is he expensive! Overall, better but not THAT much better!

Urien Rakath
Web: His ichor gauntlent is great!

Reality: um, no it isnt. His biggest buff is the fact that his clone field makes him a beast in challenges, but he wont ever get through 2+ saves. His best benefit was the distribution of pain tokens to wracks and grots, but since webways died a horrible horrible death, shelve him.


Arcons-
Web: Nerfed beyond use!

Reality: well, I hate to agree with the masses, but there are better HQ's for less, and the Arcons just dont cut it any more.

Court of the Arcon-
Web: havent heard much from the web on them

reality: Besides the majority toughness boost, they are useless.

Succubus-
Web: Too Weak

reality: A decent HQ choice. You can equip her with haywire grenades.. in fact let me say this now, NEVER take any wych without a haywire, EVER! Anyway, toss her a blaster and venom blade or agoniser, and you have a cheap, decent close combat character.

Haemonculus-
Web: Good for pain token schenanigans only.

reality: Not really. yes, the token shuffle is great, but the sniper rifle they can take is awesome. A roll of 6 to hit means YOU pick the target (bye bye melta gun!) and it causes instant death. How awesome is that?


Incubi-
Web: nerfed to death with their weapons being ap3

reality: yeah, that hurt bad, and they are a bit overpriced now, but the Klaivex is a mandatory investment, as is the demiklave. Dont be fooled into thinking this unit is garbage, it is not AS good as of old, but it is a far cry from sucking!

Grots and wracks:
Web: Dead and useless

reality: Again, the toughness game in HTH and shooting means any succubus with them is toughness 5! Not too shabby! But it is a huge point cost death star unit that will be shot off the field before it is able to do anything. Damn webway nerf!

Mandrakes:
Web: useless

reality: overpriced and useless unless you use the scenerio listed above under Kheradruakh

Harliquins-
web: Better all around! rending rocks and they are very hard to kill by shooting with the new rules.

reality: agreed, but frail, fragile and overpriced.

Trueborn/ warriors:
web: better due to the rapid fire rules.

Reality: agreed.

Bloodbrides/ Wyches
Web: useless and dead due to overwatch.

reality: Now the strongest unit in the Dark Eldar army, if used right!
People whining about overwatch need to use their heads! Say a unit of 9 wyches lead by a haemonculi are about to assault out of a raider on a unit of 10 marines.
first, the haem disembarks alone and moves 6" right at the enemy leaving the token with the wyches. Then, the wyches disembark and advance at the marines, staying more than 2" from the haem. Come charge time, you charge the haem FIRST. now the marines need to overwatch HIM, or he will get into BTB denying them the ability to overwatch the wyches! Even if they kill the haem, they cant overwatch twice in the same turn! So, your FNP wyches charge in, and eat the marines for breakfast, or the dreadnaught, or whatever it is you throw them at.

Hellions:
web: better dut to hammer of wrath. Also, you can drag an IC out of combat now!

reality: agreed, and hit and run is still huge. Avoid the stunclaw trap, as an agoniser is still vastly superior over dragging an IC out of combat!

Scourges:
Web: awesome with haywire blasters now!

reality: Still way way overpriced for what you get. Who cares about impact hits when you never want them in combat! a unit with 4 haywire blasters costs 260 points! for 4 measly shots to hurt vehicles! for 260 you can get:
10 wyches with 2 hydra gauntlets, a raider with ethersails, a hekatrix with an agonizer, 10 haywire grenades and have 25 points left over! the wyches are more mobile, dealier, better in hth, the raider has a dark lance, they are better in every way! dont waste the points!

Beasts:
web: better due to ignoring terrain and cover!

reality: better due to ignoring terrain and cover, worse due to the new wound allocation rules, Mandatory to mix the units now though.. you need khymerae and razorwings!

Reavers:
web: sooo much better, lightning fast!

reality:
this is the unit that improved the most! they are sooo much faster, tougher, and with the jink save combined with skilled rider, whenever you bladevane anyone, you have a 3+ cover. when you shoot someone, you have a 4+. You can always move in the assault phase.. they are the fastest thing in the game! They have the hammer of wrath rule, and can upgrade with a champ and power weapon or power spear (my choice). I would take in units of 7-10, and keep them in reserves. there is no reason not to unless you KNOW youare going first, because these guys can reach out and touch anyone on the board!

raiders/Venoms
web: worse due to hul points

reality: better due to hull points. I dont know about you, but my raiders died to glancing hits ALL OF THE TIME! no more! Vehicles die easier this edition, but ours ALWAYS died this easy! In a way, we got buffed!

Talos/Cronos
web: useless without portals, and portals are garbage now.

reality: sadly, they are right.

ravager
Web: Forget them and take flyers!

reality: take at LEAST 2, and arm them with tripple disintegrators! What was that about not being able to take out terminators?

Razorwing/Voidraven
web: the only anti air we have, gotta take em

reality: I havent used them enough to make an informed decision, but i am running 2 tripple dissie ravagers and 1 void raven for now.


So, as you can see, a lot of changes. Some good, some bad, but it is not the doom and gloom some people are crying about.

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 13:50

Who are these people on the web everyone keeps talking about? clown

p.s.: Ok, serious for a sec then. Amazingly our vehicles have actually gotten a buff by HP's indeed. They concentrate their dedicated AT at our flyers or ravagers and try to take cheap shots with S4+ weapons, which makes them glance only ocassionatly. Well Raiders/Ravagers have 3 HP, so they can take a glance here and there. While in 5th they still had a chance to be wrecked or explode even. Had some vehicles live throughout the game. affraid

@HERO: At that bit about the Baron you say to attach another Archon with Shadowfield. But isn't it so that because the baron has a shadowfield you can't take another?

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 15:03

@tlronin wrote:

@HERO: At that bit about the Baron you say to attach another Archon with Shadowfield. But isn't it so that because the baron has a shadowfield you can't take another?

that was the old codex. There is no restriction on how many shadowfields you have now

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 15:16

@Shadows Revenge wrote:
@tlronin wrote:

@HERO: At that bit about the Baron you say to attach another Archon with Shadowfield. But isn't it so that because the baron has a shadowfield you can't take another?

that was the old codex. There is no restriction on how many shadowfields you have now

Thnx. I gotta stop doing that kind of crap! Rolling Eyes

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 15:45

Good review. I will still take certain units due to background and ambiance reasons, but that's me.

I still have not had a game under 6e...that comes next week. I have watched a few, sadly none involving Eldarith Ynneas. I will keep this review in mind as I prepare for next week's realspace raid.

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 16:17

I think all our HQ are bad and overpriced and we have problems fitting them in transports. So haemie is the only logical hq to take because he's cheap and the shattershard can be game changing.
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 16:28

the Archon, overpriced ? Oo
60 points for 7 WS 7 BS 7I 3HP and such a wargear is not overpriced.
for 90 he has more than a termi's armor as a defence and it can fit almost everywhere if correctly built.
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 16:36

He's badly overpriced for what he does (i.e. nothing)
If you take ap3 weapons, you are dead meat against any IC with 2+ armor. The shadowfield is overpriced and worse than a terminator armour because if you roll 1, you lost your save and most likely you get oneshotted from a power fist/axe because of T3. That leaves the power axe route, and about it I'll post a comment from another person on another forum:

"I am also skeptical about Shadowfielded Axe Archons, even (especially) with Fortune for the following reasons:

- You are I 1. We pay a premium for high I which is thrown away by an item
- You are W 1. An Archon effectively has 1 wound against the units its trying to kill (owing to ID). Again we paid for 3 wounds, it'd be nice to get the full amount. Sure 1/36* will get us far, but we only have to fail it once.
- It's expensive. Bear in mind that, to get a subpar 2+ killer, the army has to pay points not just for the Archon and his kit but for the Rangers and Farseer, points which could have better been spent on more Dark Lances/Wracks with Liquifiers.
- It seems to be a lot of points directed to what seems to be a one trick pony:
- Terminator armies typically have a 24" range, key exceptions notwithstanding and are relatively easy to avoid, especially if those key exceptions are nullified earlier on.

*Actually the chance of an Archon failing a Fortuned Shadowfield roll is actually 17/432 (0.03935) taking into account the Farseer failing the Ld test (without the Runes of Witnessing)."


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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 16:45

@Ereshkigal wrote:
He's badly overpriced for what he does (i.e. nothing)
I feel that is dramatically over stated.

Our Archon, like other units, are not 'dead'....tactics simply change. Please do not presume he does 'nothing' simply because the way you may have used him in a 5th ed list is not as affective in a 6th ed game. The metagame has changed, and our tactics will evolve with it.

We are Dark Eldar after all Wink
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 16:48

Sure as hell we will adapt, my way to adapt is throwing the archon out of the window and take a shattershard haemie.
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 16:48

I would agree with Ereshkigal a bit. Some of our SC are a bit pricey for what they bring to the table. Vect, Drazhar, Lelith, Urien.

Vect: AP3, 4+ Sieze, Preferred Enemey (Everything) 200+
Drazhar: AP2, Good stats and buffs, can only group with incubi, no grenades. 200+
Urien: T5, Grot Buff (that you have to pay to use), Random PT on wracks and grots only, Clonefield, 3+ Poison Weapon w/ ID, comes with PT. 180+
Lelith: S3, Ignores Armour, no combat drugs, 3++ in combat (don't accept or challenge a S6+ model or she is gone). 160+

Only SCs that have great point costs is Duke, Lady Malys, and Baron.

Also with our troops using the Imperial build (5-10man to get special weapons) means it is hard if you want to bring a HQ with our transports. One situation would be the Duke and Warriors, I would want to bring 10 warriors w/ SC and Blaster in a raider, its terrible that I can't bring the Duke to give them the buff and fly in the raider together. Another example bring wyches with a haemy in a raider, the haemy will help the wyches with fnp but then that restricts the wyches to 1 wych weapon, who wants to bring 1 shardnet?

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 18:37

I think Vect is worth his points, especially when you compare him to other SCs in the game.
WS8, I8 with a buttload of PW attacks that wound on 3+.
Confers Fearless and Preferred Enemy to the squad.

Basically a mix of the Wych and Archon, with a added shooting attack that could be useful because of the S10. Scattering on BS8 is awfully difficult.

In order of cost effectiveness:
Baron, Vect, Duke and Malys, in that order.

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Last edited by HEROBEAR on Sat Jul 14 2012, 22:54; edited 1 time in total
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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 18:42

Not instagib as it wounds against their leadership... but vect is beyond usefull... remember that when he hits with that blast attack, he regenerates wounds... Also, he only confers Preferred Enemy, not Fearless, which is a bag of mixed feelings with the change to PE...

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 19:00

You give fearless to the unit if i remember correctly the rule. But the ap3 is really bad. On a 240 pts characters... i don't know but i can't really think of fielding him just because of his ap3. I played drazhar the last week against that poor draigo who only has an ap3 weapon and drazhar ate him alive... 275 points completely wasted because of his ap3 who couldn't hurt Drazhar while his 3++ save was bad enough to let him die. Now image Vect against a normal Marine IC with artificer armor and you'll feel the same, the first failed shadowfield test and vect is toast against an IC worth less than half of his points.

I don't know, this edition for me was a big letdown about dark eldar. I took this army because of the insane dueling power from some of the SC and even from the lowly archons and succubus. Now it's all the way around, cheap Haemie and no melee if you want to have the maximum chances to win the game. I feel betrayed by gw in this. I still can win games, granted, but the thing that made me buy the army is gone. :'l

Sorry for the rant.
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StaticVortex
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 19:25

That is correct, fearless confers to the unit as long as one or more models have the rule. BRB pg35
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 19:32

Another thing people miss with Vect is his THROWN haywire grenade.

he throws it at a dreadnaught... rolls a "1", then he rolls again, on a 4+ he hits anyway! If he misses,
he rolls AGAIN due to preffered enemy.

So for vect to miss, he would have to roll a "1", then a 1-3, then a 1, then a 1-3 again!

His haywire grenade is the closest thing to an automatic hit the game has outside of flamers!

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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 13 2012, 19:36

@Skulnbonz wrote:
Another thing people miss with Vect is his THROWN haywire grenade.

he throws it at a dreadnaught... rolls a "1", then he rolls again, on a 4+ he hits anyway! If he misses,
he rolls AGAIN due to preffered enemy.

So for vect to miss, he would have to roll a "1", then a 1-3, then a 1, then a 1-3 again!

His haywire grenade is the closest thing to an automatic hit the game has outside of flamers!

Actually, not true as you can never re-roll a re-roll. I will agree with you though that it is very hard for Vect to miss.
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PostSubject: Re: My review of all of our units in 6th Ed.   My review of all of our units in 6th Ed. I_icon_minitime

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