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 are terminators really godlike?

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CaptainBalroga
Sybarite
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 09:34

You cannot shoot and move Flat Out, AFAIK. The wording is something like 'The embarked unit cannot shoot if the vehicles moves Flat Out or uses smoke launchers that turn".

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Enfernux
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Enfernux

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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 13:15

to bad, that would've been fun Smile

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Mr Believer
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 13:28

Terminators are godlike, as they should be. Incubi chopping through them always seemed a bit silly to me, seeing as it didn't really seem to be what they were for. Of course, I always thought of them as marine and Striking Scorpion killers after reading that story in the old codex, so that probably influenced my thinking there, but warriors who "scorn a fair fight" would still steer clear of the lumbering man mountains, surely?

My greatest success in killing Terminators has come from shooting rather than combat, pretty much all the time. I don't have an army geared up for Termie killing at all - sometimes I swap out the dark lances on the Razorwing for disintegrators, but that's all. Sheer volume of fire WILL put them down, and they're so slow you can get out of their way and redeploy. Gang up on them too, that's always fun. Two Venoms, three Blasterborn and three Reavers was enough for me to take 6 Terminators down to two, who then got charged by five Wracks (who miraculously won combat). If they deep strike, they should wreck a transport, which is obviously more painful than it used to be, but you should have plenty of other stuff, as they've probably come in fairly soon now it's 3+ for reserves. Or just leave them alone. They can't catch you Twisted Evil

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xzandrate
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 14:56

@Enfernux wrote:
@xzandrate: most of the covers are 5+, i think ruins give 4+, so they would get a 3+ cs, compared to their 3+ as, but it does make them have a save against some of the weapons, like ap1, 2, 3.

Actually, because they have Stealth AND Shrouded, they get +3 to their cover save, so 4+ cover in the open, 2+ in virtually everything but razorwire.

The terminator points are all valid, but we don't perform any worse than other armies, I really can't think of much that can go in and take them out efficiently in any other army.
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 15:42

so how do they get +3 form 2 rules? Indulge me please.

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theblackjackal
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 16:12

Stealth adds +1 to your cover save, or a 6+ cover save if you don't get one normally. Shrouded adds +2 to your cover save, or a 5+ cover save if you don't get one normally. Now, I'm not all that great with math, but let's see what the numbers look like:

5+ cover save from Shrouded +1 from Stealth = 4+ cover save in the open.

5+ cover save in anything but razorwire, ruins or fortifications +1 from Stealth +2 from Shrouded = 2+ cover save.

Either way, it boils down to the simple fact that 1 + 2 = 3.

Anyways, the only times where we'll actually have to fight against Terminators is if we made a mistake and allowed them to take a strategically important position like an objective, they are shooty Terminators, or if they're scoring units. Other than those specific situations, we can fairly safely ignore them.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 17:11

doesnt shroud add +1, for a total of +2 added to stealth?

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HERO
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 17:51

Most terrain + Stealth = 4+ cover save.
Most terrain + Shrouded = 3+ cover save.
Most terrain + Stealth + Shrouded = 2+ cover save.
Ruins + Stealth = 3+ cover save.
Ruins + Shrouded = 2+ cover save.
Most terrain + well-positioned angle + Stealth = 3+ cover save.
Most terrain + well-positioned angle + Shrouded = 2+ cover save.
Jink + Stealth = 4+ cover save.
Jink + Stealth + well-positioned angle = 3+ cover save.
Jink + Shroud = 3+ cover save.
Jink + Stealth + Shrouded = 2+ cover save.
Flat out + Stealth = 3+ cover save.
Flat out + Shrouded = 2+ cover save.
Flat out + Stealth + well-positioned angle = 2+ cover save.

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Last edited by HEROBEAR on Sat Jul 14 2012, 22:19; edited 2 times in total
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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 19:11

HEROBEAR wrote:
@Enfernux wrote:
doesnt shroud add +1, for a total of +2 added to stealth?

Yes.
Stealth is +1 to your cover save.
Shrouded is +1 to your cover save.
Well-positioned angle = +1 to your cover save.
Stealth + Shrouded = +2 to your cover save.
Stealth + Shrouded + well-positioned angle = +3 to your cover save.
Jink is a flat 5+ cover save.
Flat out is a flat 4+ cover save.
Most terrain is a flat 5+ cover save.
Ruins is a flat 4+ cover save.

I hate to be argumentative, but Shrouded is +2. The rulebook says: 'A unit that contains at least one model with this special rule counts its cover saves as being 2 points better than normal. Note that this means a model with the Shrouded special rule always has a cover save of at least 5+, even if it is in the open.'

It then says that Stealth and Shrouded are cumulative, to a maximum cover save of 2+

Xzandrate would be right. A basic cover save of 5+ (most terrain) plus shrouded (+2) plus stealth (+1) equals a 2+ save. Someone must really like the Tau!
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HERO
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 22:20

Yes, I updated it.
Mornings Razz

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teh603
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 02:07

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Terminators are supposed to have the ultimate in personal armour in the galaxy, hence not much can ignore it in close combat.
What about flinging Beastmasters at them? Razorwing flocks get AP 2 when rending goes off, and if nothing else the 4+I save the Khymeras get could tarpit them for a while.
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 09:48

@teh: since 6th ed, i cant crack'em open with my incu, so i will just ignore them, one their LR is popped, and stay away from droppod areas.
A termi moving ~9" a turn isnt that scary. If it gets to close, say 14", zoom to the other side of the board. Sure, you dont get a KP, but dont lose any to it either. The best counter for a hammernator deathstar: pop the raider, than ignore'em completely.

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Barking Agatha
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 10:12

If those termies have storm bolters and an assault cannon, ignoring them isn't going to be quite that easy! You'll find yourself shooting at them a lot.

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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 10:34

IF shootinators will be in game, then yes, i am going to shoot them up fast, for they only have a 5up invul save. 0.88 dead from a raider dissi, 0.33 from ONE cannon etcetc.
But Agatha, you misunderstood, i was talking about hammernators, what is usually the case, although point taken, didnt state it Smile If my opponent decides to bring PFnators, so be it, 6 disintegrators will make short work of them - 4 on raiders, 2 on rwjf. 5.33 dead termies a turn compared to a 2.66 hammernator. That took up most of my heavy shooting though.

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 10:45

Want to know what's really godlike? The dreadknight... everytime it soaks up almost all my firepower for 2 turns. Dissies against it are not good, lances are effectives but 4 wounds are many... and the teleport + incinerator move is really scary (no cover, so no jink, no nightfight, only FF).
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Enfernux
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 11:25

@Eres: yep, they are monsters, true...i was calculating , rewriting this post, calculating some more, and i realised: volume of fire...maybe a farseer casting doom on it. Tough nut to crack.

wait, i got it: Prince Yriel. Singing spear that IGNORES armor saves!

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Ereshkigal
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 12:08

I don't like allies at all, too expensive. Btw i killed a dreadknight yesterday in a way that my opponent was about to concede right away.
I did 2 wounds with 9 lances and 24 splinter shots. I was really scared at that moment. Then he destroyed the venom with the haemie inside and charged with the Knight through the cover of the wrecked venom. I shot a liquifier and did 1 wound because i had AP1 for that shot. Then challenged the knight with my Haemie with venomblade and he didn't save the wound i caused (rolled 1). He died horribly Very Happy
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: are terminators really godlike?   are terminators really godlike? - Page 3 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 16 2012, 12:42

dissie ravagers deal with termies, dissies are our most efficient weapon against them.

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