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Massaen
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PostSubject: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 08:51

I love the idea of 4 trueborn with shredders and while amusing in 5th they actually are pretty good now. The -AP is irrelevant, they are cheap and snap fire from a vehicle is fine thanks to the blast weapon rules.

Do the shredderborn now have a place in our armies?

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 09:02

you mean the snapfire blast weapon rules that say that blast weapons cant be snapfired?

Anyway, the problem isn't with the shredder itself, but rather the other things they can take. Blasters and DL are all more relevant to pretty much every army than a shredder is. Alone the shredder isn't a bad weapon, like, if you could take them on haemun or wracks instead of/along with liquifiers, you would see them a lot more often. But seeing as how that isn't the case, I have no plans to go and saw off any of my dudes blasters to replace them with shredders.

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The New AIDS
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 10:55

Also keep in mind that they are small-blast. Unlikey to hit much with that (assuming your opponent isn't an idiot and spreads his lads out).

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Massaen
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 11:10

@Ruke wrote:
you mean the snapfire blast weapon rules that say that blast weapons cant be snap fired.

Argh! Embarassed

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Shadows Revenge
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 14:50

yup... Sorry Massen, but blasters are still superior to shredders...

That being said if you are strapped for points, I dont think we will bawk at shredders are much around here. They are now okish... I guess... a way to save points perhaps???

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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 17:05

@Massaen wrote:
@Ruke wrote:
you mean the snapfire blast weapon rules that say that blast weapons cant be snap fired.

Argh! Embarassed

lol, another plan foiled!

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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 20:55

Shredders are ok if you take big Warrior squads (20 man ones for a Farseer bodyguard), since the Blaster would be kinda wasted then. They got better, but usually Blaster is still superior.

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Ruke
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 22:36

I still dont see how shredders got better... Razz

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Bibitybopitybacon
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 06:43

I think they got better since S6 can glance pretty well and the ap- isn't that big of a deal anymore. Also the new blast rule mean it doesn't matter if the hole is over the target or not. So yeah, they got buffed.
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Count Adhemar
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 09:35

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
I think they got better since S6 can glance pretty well and the ap- isn't that big of a deal anymore. Also the new blast rule mean it doesn't matter if the hole is over the target or not. So yeah, they got buffed.

I just have a thing about blast weapons. If they're small blasts I rarely use them as I find they almost never hit more than one model unless through a lucky scatter roll.

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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 18:00

While I don't think that Shedders are a good choice for Trueborn, I do think they could be a cheap option for a Raider riding 10 warrior w/splinter cannon unit if you had some points left over to kill. The inability to snap fire is kind of a big turn off on it for me tho.
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 11 2012, 00:46

with the change of the template only has to touch the vehicle rather than be over it, shredders are exactly the same. Nothing else has changed. If you didn't think they were worth taking in 5th, theres no reason you should suddenly change your mind in 6th. You can't snapfire them. The AP- means the exact same thing (that mostly everything under the sun gets a armor save). They're still small blasts, and still won't ID most things. I fail to understand your argument as to how they got better.

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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 14:49

The change to blast markers means that you could cover 2 vehicles and if no (or minimal) scatter your hitting 2 vehicles with the one gun - S6 does mean a higher d6 result for the glance, but we can position ourselves exceptionally well when versing static tank armies. AP- has changed, means that you nolonger -1 on the damage chart, vs AV10 thats not bad.

I don't like the short range on them though - 12" is just a little too close to hang your TB out to fire,,,,, but only playtesting will truely tell.

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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 14:10

In most cases you'd rather have 1 str 8 ap2 hit rather than 2 str 6 ap- hits. When you combine that with the fact the you likely have to not scatter to get both vehicles, and to get 2 vehicles they have to get within 3" means you probably have a much greater chance of getting 1 hit with a blaster than 2 hits with a shredder. When you add in 12" range the blaster is better at anti tank.

I was considering that the shredder might be better if we see more hordes (IG, Orks etc.), but the 12" range means it's likely to be a one shot wonder. For hordes I think an additional razorwing at the expense of a ravager may be the way to go. Leave trueborn with blasters and haywire grenades for AT.

Thoughts ?

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Fruz
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 15:12

you can"t just put the circle wherever you want, it has to be exactly at the exact center of a model which means unless there is a sandwitch with one model and 2 tanks, you're not gonna see that unless the scatter rolls decides it =/.
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 17:28

I didn't realise that had changed in 6th. Previously you just had to put the centre of the template hole over the models base or hull allowing much more flexibility with placement. I'll have check my rulebook. Either way your point stands that it's very hard to catch multiple vehicles with the small blast template.

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Nomic
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 17:30

According to the BRB, you just have to have the hole in the center of the marker entirely within the hull or base of the target. Nothing about it having to be in the center of the hull.

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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 17:38

Yeah, that means small explosions can't touch other vehicles unless they are almost stuck together.
I meant the center of the template, not model sry.
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Arrex
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 18:14

Actually, I am thinking of Shredders for one simple reason: Exterminating Scarab swarms. They would chew them apart.
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Talos
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 22:51

Shredders are not a bad choice, with rapid fire and shredders, our warriors dish out a lot of wounds. It wounds most things on a +2, and one could Easley hit 3-5 models.
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PostSubject: Re: Shredderborn   Shredderborn I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 08 2012, 23:23

3-5 models with a shredder ? that never happens when people are splitting a little bit their units so that they are not completely packed, especially when it scatters =((.
I would say mor like 1-3 models, which is already not bad imo considering the S6, too bad it's only 12" range.
I have on shredder in my kabalite warriors in raider unit, I consider that they are not gonna be most likely targetting tanks anyway, so getting a shredder for 5 points seems right to me.
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