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dangerous beans
Kabalite Warrior
dangerous beans

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PostSubject: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 00:10

Hi guys, I've been thinking a little about transport survivability and particularly in regards to getting our assault units into the parts of the enemy army that we need them most.

However this thread is not worrying so much about what is sat in the Raiders, but rather about protecting our Raiders through the help of night fighting.

Night Fighting


There is a 50:50 chance of any single game of 40k occuring under nightfighting conditions (roll of a 4+ before deploying means the first turn will be in night fighting rules).

Night Fighting means:
- no unit can be shot at over 36" range
- units between 24-36" away gain Shrouded (adds 2 to your cover save)
- units between 12-24" gain Stealth (adds 1 to your cover save)
- Shrouded is Cumulative with Stealth (if a unit is shrouded then it is also Stealthed and so has a +3 to Cover Saves)

Besides the 4+ roll you can also cause the game to begin under Nightfighting thanks to one of the 6 rolls on the 'Strategy' Warlords Chart.

Thus because you only need 1 of the 2 chances of nightfighting to occur - as loose chance of getting Night Fighting is 3/6 (the 4+ roll) OR the 1/6 Warlord Trait roll on the Strategy table. Thus an approximate (its not quite this high but almost) chance of Night Fighting by using the Strategy traits table is 4/6 (or 2/3).

----------------------------------------------------

So what does this mean for Raiders?

Well, if you Flat Out on turn one you gain a 4+ cover save from being a fast skimmer which, combined with Stealth will increase to a 3+ Cover Save as long as the enemy will not be able to get within 12" of your transport(s) during their turn. This will mean placing your Raiders 18.1 - 19" away from the enemy units (unless they can move more than 6" and fire heavy weapons or they have weapons that ignore cover). If you succeed in getting several Assault Raiders/Venoms into this sweet spot during Night Fighting on turn 1 then you stand a fairly good chance of surviving with your 3+ Cover Saves.

Of course this becomes a LOT tricker if your opponents get the first turn - but I'll leave discussing that to you folks later in this thread...

There is another Trick which you can pull if you're taking an Allied Psyker with the ability to take Telepathy (Farseer / Eldrad anybody?), even if Nightfighting is not in place you could attempt to get Invisibility cast onto your fast moving raider and gain a 2+ Cover Save on it. Hell if you have Eldrad then you could cast this same power twice per turn meaning 2 transports could be 'cloaked' by invisibility...

...x2 Tantulus anybody?!

Theres quite a lot of 'IFs' but hell right now, I'm considering any ideas to try to get our assault delivery systems working.

Have I gone stark raving mad or could there be something in all this? lol! Thoughts?

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Bibitybopitybacon
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 00:37

I like it. I think that nightfighting is really going to help our units. In truth, I think it helps shooty units the most since they can take night shields and stay in the sweet spot so they get 3+ while makimg surethe other guy is out of range. Night fighting doesn't help with overwatch, but the fact that it can keep our transports safe the first turn since we can't get the turn one assult as easly is huge.
Also it's great to hear someone think of solutions instead of bemoaning our fate as an assult army. I commend you good sir.
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dangerous beans
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 01:18

Thank you Bibitybopity (awesome name but hard to spell!! Very Happy) but believe me I was criminal too of crying and shouting for Mat Ward's head to be delivered on a pike last weekend too! Wink I've gotten over that now and just am ready to take on the challenge and make things work! I hope that all the peeps on this forum will follow suit sooner rather than later - theres a lot of theoryhammer discussion and I hope that this doesn't put people off from trying the more 'out there' ideas.

But anyway I digress - I had meant to add that of course trying to gain Night Fighting through any means is also a huge boon for our shooting too (which will be playing a specific supporting role I hope in my lists) thanks to our Night Vision: my idea is for my opponents to get intimidated by the firepower of the support shooting during turn 1 that they mostly ignore my assault raiders and instead attempt to retaliate against my shooters deployed further back (with the aim of gaining Shrouded for the shooting units).

Its gonna be hard to pull off but I think with some practise games at it I could hone and shape something out of this idea. Throw a cheeky WWP into the mix to keep my opponent on his toes (as a Talos or 2 will come out of it along with the Scourges and perhaps a unit of RJBs). The attempt is to confuse and mislead my opponents psychologically through target saturation whilst keeping my options as open as possible...

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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
Evil Space Elves

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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 01:23

@dangerous beans wrote:


...x2 Tantulus anybody?!
Thoughts?

I don't have anymore kidneys to sell for FW models Razz

I think that you are on to right strategy of misdirecting your enemy. Isn't that what DE are supposed to do?
I also thank you for presenting solutions rather than having a whinefest.

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Archon Farath Mure
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 02:12

@Evil Space Elves wrote:
@dangerous beans wrote:


...x2 Tantulus anybody?!
Thoughts?

I don't have anymore kidneys to sell for FW models Razz

I think that you are on to right strategy of misdirecting your enemy. Isn't that what DE are supposed to do?
I also thank you for presenting solutions rather than having a whinefest.
You play DE. Sell someone else's kidneys.
And I too must express pleasure at seeing people try to find solutions to the changes.

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"Let the vermin burn. We shall drink deep of their screams this night." Archon Farath Müre, High Archon of the Kabal of the Consuming Flame
(11/5/2013: A few things have been added to the Kabal's fluff, most notably shifting their base of operations into the Webway, sort of, and adding an alliance with the Alpha Legion, or at least a few heads of the hydra.)
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The_Burning_Eye
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 22:53

Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly.

Night fighting is definitely going to be a help, night shields are now much more useful, stick them on a gunboat raider with splinter racks and they present a much more serious threat than they used to.

Just picking up on your webway portal idea, can I just say reaver jetbikes and cluster caltrops? 6D3 S4 + 3D6 S6 hits with a turbo boost and 2D6 assault phase move should get you well away from any reprisal! Sure, it might do nothing, but the potential damage is monstrous and even the average should net you 3-4 kills at MEQ's from a full squad of reavers.

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Bibitybopitybacon
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 06 2012, 23:46

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly.

Night fighting is definitely going to be a help, night shields are now much more useful, stick them on a gunboat raider with splinter racks and they present a much more serious threat than they used to.

Just picking up on your webway portal idea, can I just say reaver jetbikes and cluster caltrops? 6D3 S4 + 3D6 S6 hits with a turbo boost and 2D6 assault phase move should get you well away from any reprisal! Sure, it might do nothing, but the potential damage is monstrous and even the average should net you 3-4 kills at MEQ's from a full squad of reavers.
Try throwing in a doom jetbike farseer in the mix.
But you don't get the 2D6 if you turbo boost. It's 12 in the movement phase then a 36 in the shooting phase or 2D6 in the assult phase.
I could be wrong though im as new as everyone else to the new rules.
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Evil Space Elves
Haemonculus Ancient
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 07 2012, 00:06

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly.

I'm adding this to my signature Twisted Evil

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Under the Cover of Darkness JVMWVbU
"Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly."  -The Burning Eye
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BlckRven
Kabalite Warrior
BlckRven

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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 07 2012, 00:31

I mus say, Eldar is a long time ago for me. Bit didn't eldrad, and the other psykers, have fortune? reroll saves? sounds pretty nice on raiders.

I got rid of that double post for you. - Cavash.

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HERO
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 07 2012, 01:15

@Archon Farath Mure wrote:
@Evil Space Elves wrote:
@dangerous beans wrote:


...x2 Tantulus anybody?!
Thoughts?

I don't have anymore kidneys to sell for FW models Razz

I think that you are on to right strategy of misdirecting your enemy. Isn't that what DE are supposed to do?
I also thank you for presenting solutions rather than having a whinefest.
You play DE. Sell someone else's kidneys.
And I too must express pleasure at seeing people try to find solutions to the changes.

lol, I laughed at this one.

Keep in mind that you get the Shrouded bonus too if you're 36" or so away. 36" is basically the perfect Lance engagement range while providing you with 3+ cover due to Stealth, Shrouding and 5+ Jink.

Night Fighting and Night Vision is exactly what Dark Eldar should have to be successful.

If your opponents get the first turn, just start all your dudes on your deployment edge, or over 36" away after their movement and threat range has been assessed.

If you have ruins or buildings around, you can angle your Raiders so your opponents will have to deal with 3+ cover (due to angling and 4+ cover), then having to deal with Shrouded and Stealth. The worst you can possibly have, is a 3+ cover from 5+ bushes/trees, so I think you're pretty golden when it comes to Night Fighting.

Thanks for crunching the numbers, 2/3rd chance to get it while taking the Strategic Trait (which I always do) is fantastic.

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Sendreavus
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 07 2012, 03:16

@The_Burning_Eye wrote:
Solutions are good, how many dark eldar archons can you find sitting in their throne rooms whining that they used to rule the universe? Exactly.

Just the patricians Vect overthrew Razz >.> Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Under the Cover of Darkness   Under the Cover of Darkness I_icon_minitime

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