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 HQ choice in 6th

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thejamppa
Hellion
thejamppa

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Join date : 2012-07-07
Location : Finland

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 08 2012, 15:46

Alrighty. I did today 20 play test challenges against various marines and their characters with my archon and different loadouts. With my dices, Huskblade and Soul trap is pretty good, but only against normal marines. With 6th edition everyones going to put Artificer armours and or terminator armous on their captains or such. Blood Angels do not have artificer armours for captains...

Still only fool would not put 2+ armours and go challenging.

Agonizer with power axe seems to be most effective and reliable way to threat nearly anything and combine with one or two blast pistols... well. Its expensive yet its fun not sure if its legal but didn't found anything in codex or 6th edition BRB say you couldn't have 2 pistols now and 2 special closecombat weapons you just need to nominate what you're going to use for that combat round. But running 210P no name character is seriously... well... its killy but so damn expensive. I guess shadowfiels, agnoizer and power axe with soul trap will do. Everyone seems to want piece of Archons now

Still Agnozer and Power axe seems to be the way now to get things done. Pretty all around and pair costs as much as does a Huskblade...

Venom is ok weapon is you roll well dices. You can sink your opponent into armour save throws which bound to fail eventually. Not that reliable against captains in terminator armours though. Still very, very cheap.

Huskblade is still very killy, but only against power armours. Too expensive for what it does really and Agnonizer is a tad more realiable.

Agnozer. A good threat against power armours. Reliable wounding. I like it

Power weapon. Besides Axe nothing else is really worth investing with agonizer. Axe is cheaper than agnozer but is unweildy, so you lose initiative bonus. Still only real way to threatten terminators and artificer armoured oppoentns in close combat.

Blast pistol. Nice, threats terminators but has poor range. Still if you got a points I would take atleast one so you won't throw BS7 out of window.

Shadow field and clone fields are almost must these days. Challenges will be issued often.

with my experiment... You want cheap HQ, Archon it is not. Succubus or Haemmie might be much better choice but cheap HQ's don't live long in challenges.
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HERO
Hekatrix
HERO

Posts : 1057
Join date : 2012-04-13

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 17:07

I think the Succubi are the best buy for the points.

75 points for a Succy with Venom Blade and Haywires,
105 points for a Succy with Agonizer, Blast Pistol and Haywire,
or 90 points for a Succy with Venom Blade, Blast Pistol and Haywire.

They are, along side the Liquidifer Haemonculi, are the best buys in the book.

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Arrex
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 18:32

I like a naked Haemonculus with only a Shattershard as an upgrade. It's cheap, you get a pain token (FnP isn't useless, noobs, I'll take a what is essentially a 5++ any day of the week over the old 4+), and the ol' Shattershard is a great piece of kit. People might overlook it, but it does let you completely ignore things like invulns, FnP, and Resurrection Protocol rolls when it goes off.

I like the Succubus as a cheap way to add some punch to a Wych squad, but with T3 and a 4++, she's pretty squishy. You're really gambling if you send her after heavy hitting HQs, since so many of them are going to be sporting powerfists now. (Even rifleman dreads can still stomp her into a bloody paste with a single hit)

Archon might see some real play now, since that 2++ is gonna be very intimidating during a challenge. Problem is, against 2+ armor your options start getting limited, and like the Succubus, a single failed save will usually result in a splattered Archon.

In either case, you're probably better off picking on the little guys and avoiding enemy deathstars. Archons and Succubi should consistently smack around Marine sarges and Ork nobs, but tooled up Marine HQs in Terminator armor and carrying storm shields might be a real headache.
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Barking Agatha
Wych
Barking Agatha

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 20:57

About your Archon... if you have a huskblade and a shadow field and you're fighting a character with a 2+ save, surely it comes down to who rolls a 1 first? And you'll have the advantage of almost always hitting first.

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BlckRven
Kabalite Warrior
BlckRven

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 09 2012, 21:02

Shattershard is always fun to use. Combine it with a liquefier form an attached wrack unit. and it is pretty decent at taking out though units.

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thelordhellion
Hellion
thelordhellion

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 04:45

i once packed 2 nude haemons with shattershards.......all my enemies were in vehicles.........got gunned down.............. Evil or Very Mad

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Bibitybopitybacon
Wych
Bibitybopitybacon

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 06:47

@thelordhellion wrote:
i once packed 2 nude haemons with shattershards.......all my enemies were in vehicles.........got gunned down.............. Evil or Very Mad
You can only have one shattershard in a list sadly, the * next to it declares it so Crying or Very sad
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BlckRven
Kabalite Warrior
BlckRven

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 10 2012, 15:43

SILLY QUESTION TIME:

why where you out of your vehicles and he still in? you are either doing something wrong with darkmatter (in case of WWP deployement) or you shouldn't have been out of the vehicle with an anti infantry unit.

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Arhra
Hellion
Arhra

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 14 2012, 21:37

I plan on going with Duke and Baron.

Baron is going to be in a largish Beast unit. Duke will bounce around to wherever he wants.

I think the Duke kind of got better since our other HQ choices got worse. Rending on a 5 is basically like our old agonizer only on a 5+ instead of 4+, he's also not too pricey and has a blast pistol. Very versitle.

I really hope the Huskblade ends up at AP 2 somehow.. Then it'd be fun again.

I also plan on investing an a Farseer on Jetbike...
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thelordhellion
Hellion
thelordhellion

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 07:34

@Bibitybopitybacon wrote:
@thelordhellion wrote:
i once packed 2 nude haemons with shattershards.......all my enemies were in vehicles.........got gunned down.............. Evil or Very Mad
You can only have one shattershard in a list sadly, the * next to it declares it so <span class='tooltiptrolol'><img src='https://s3.amazonaws.com/TrollEmoticons/cry.png' /><span>cry</span></span>

whoops the * , forgot about that Embarassed

pig i guess i can't read........

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thelordhellion
Hellion
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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 07:37

@BlckRven wrote:
SILLY QUESTION TIME:

why where you out of your vehicles and he still in? you are either doing something wrong with darkmatter (in case of WWP deployement) or you shouldn't have been out of the vehicle with an anti infantry unit.

it was apoc, i was running a WWP list and delivering beasts to his army vehicle phalax centre, the darklight was busy else where against the heavier vehicles

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BlckRven
Kabalite Warrior
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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 15 2012, 16:33

ahh okay, makes a bit more sence than

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NiteOwl
Hellion
NiteOwl

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 18 2012, 22:52

Excuse me but isn't it correct that for every 5 models in your unit (or is it fight? I don't have the rulebook) unengaged your challenging HQ get 1 re-roll (of what kind?) ? And dark eldar do not fight fair, we all know that. So to support our lack of AP2 ccw we can take more models (that grant us re-rolls) to make all our attacks count. Quite fluffy and not that bad. We all know that the more saves the enemy does, the more he fails.

What do you think?


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Nomic
Wych
Nomic

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2012, 14:16

The moral support rule only works if you're fighting a single model, tho. Makes the stunclaw potentially quite useful. Pull an IC from a unit, and have him fight Baron or another IC in a challenge. Get a reroll for shadowfield for every 5 Hellions.

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Anggul
Sybarite
Anggul

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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 19 2012, 15:04

The nerf to power weapons means that the Duke and Baron are the only ones who have retained their usefulness. Archons, Succubi and Vect relied on ignoring armour to be effective. (Our beloved Huskblade/Soultrap is now in the past) They are now only capable of dealing with power armour, which we didn't have too much of a problem with anyway. They used to be good for taking a bite out of Terminators, now they're useless at it.

Lelith and Drazhar got better. Lelith because she ignores armour, Drazhar because his 2+ armour is now better, Murderous Assault makes him scary in a challenge, and S6 AP2 at I7 is now something very rare and very scary... now we just need to teach him how to throw grenades. Oh and Darting Strike combined with the new wound allocation based on distance is very useful.

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1++
Hekatrix
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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 20 2012, 04:57

Was reading back over the wargear options and it ocurred to me that I have never ever seen anyone run an Archon w/ Soul Trap and a Blaster - to fill the soul trap.
Now with Overwatch and Precision Shot, we have a 1 in 6 chance of filling the Soul Trap from the Blaster, as the Soul Trap rules aren't limited tp Close Combat.
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Mushkilla
Arena Champion
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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 20 2012, 07:44

@1++ wrote:
Was reading back over the wargear options and it ocurred to me that I have never ever seen anyone run an Archon w/ Soul Trap and a Blaster - to fill the soul trap.
Now with Overwatch and Precision Shot, we have a 1 in 6 chance of filling the Soul Trap from the Blaster, as the Soul Trap rules aren't limited tp Close Combat.

They still get a "look out sir" on a 2+ seeing that the soul trap currently only works on independent characters. Also you can't use precision shot on overwatch. Sad
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Enfernux
Wych
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PostSubject: Re: HQ choice in 6th   HQ choice in 6th - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 20 2012, 08:20

well, i have a loadout that can help fill up the soultrap but is very expensive:
huskblade, agoniser, soultrap, pgl, drugs, shadowfield.
first boost to the soultrap would be with the agoniser, after that, use huskblade. T4+? wont matter for we wound on a 4up Very Happy But maybe a venom blade would be good also, for its sheer number of wounds...hmm...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQH3p4uew_8
yep, i will venom blade it, making my build a bit cheeper Very Happy

so the first thing i will have to do is attack a wraithlord or a nother MC, or challenge and IC, and then go like 'HMFS IM AWESOME!' and charge some more.

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